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Handout motors

Old 07-27-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
I don't think that there was one person who got a "handout" brushed motor and actually put it into the car the way they got it. They had some very interesting things done to them, right up to and over the letter of the rules, too.
exactly. New springs, special brushes and cut comm before it ever saw the track
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by thisguy2849 View Post
exactly. New springs, special brushes and cut comm before it ever saw the track
And that was before rebuildable stock motors
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:35 PM
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How does any of this apply to a sealed, tamper evident brushless motor?
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by R Dodge View Post
How does any of this apply to a sealed, tamper evident brushless motor?



This made me smile. People are devious man! It's actually one of the fun parts of racing if we're not taking it too seriously.

One story I know of was the motors they were using in some Mini racing where the guys would put them in the oven to somewhat de-magnetize the rotor so it would spin more RPM. Or that guy (this wasn't sealed motor but locked timing) who de-soldered his hall effect sensors and re-soldered them with more timing. People are remarkably good at finding ways to get around rules.

If I was given a sealed motor I wouldn't mess with it, but that doesn't change that I know how to.

Last edited by DesertRat; 07-27-2018 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
cute.

please share legitimate concerns for how you think folks might cheat with a sealed, tamper evident motor so maybe can-am can address it now.

thanks.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:46 PM
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Because those were sealed, tamper evident brushed motors, but people still found ways around that.

Also so what is to stop people from running different tooth pulleys?

Example: someone puts in a 39 tooth diff pulley in a car that runs a 40 tooth diff pulley? Takes it from a 2.0 to a 1.9 internal. In a fixed timing and gear ratio world, this makes a huge difference. And donít think people wonít (attemp to) do it. The tech guy is now going to have to know the internal ratio of ever make and model of car, and what every cars parts look like. But then again since just about everyone wanting this runs awesomatix, it should be pretty easy.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
Because those were sealed, tamper evident brushed motors, but people still found ways around that.

Also so what is to stop people from running different tooth pulleys?

Example: someone puts in a 39 tooth diff pulley in a car that runs a 40 tooth diff pulley? Takes it from a 2.0 to a 1.9 internal. In a fixed timing and gear ratio world, this makes a huge difference. And donít think people wonít (attemp to) do it. The tech guy is now going to have to know the internal ratio of ever make and model of car, and what every cars parts look like. But then again since just about everyone wanting this runs awesomatix, it should be pretty easy.
so what, you think someone is going to find a way to crank timing into a brushless motor without taking it apart? Doubt it.

can am has a tool they are testing for snooping out incorrect gearing and/or pulleys to cheat the fdr. Similar to ETS.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
Because those were sealed, tamper evident brushed motors, but people still found ways around that.

Also so what is to stop people from running different tooth pulleys?

Example: someone puts in a 39 tooth diff pulley in a car that runs a 40 tooth diff pulley? Takes it from a 2.0 to a 1.9 internal. In a fixed timing and gear ratio world, this makes a huge difference. And don’t think people won’t (attemp to) do it. The tech guy is now going to have to know the internal ratio of ever make and model of car, and what every cars parts look like. But then again since just about everyone wanting this runs awesomatix, it should be pretty easy.
Somebody could also hide a tiny 3rd cell inside their receiver case for extra voltage...

Somebody could inflate their tires thru the vent hole to stretch the circumference of the tire...

Somebody could cut a 55t pinion and stamp it as a 53t...

The funny part of all this seems to be the people for it have tried it....and the people against it have not?
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Last edited by Xpress; 07-27-2018 at 12:56 PM. Reason: .
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by R Dodge View Post


cute.

please share legitimate concerns for how you think folks might cheat with a sealed, tamper evident motor so maybe can-am can address it now.

thanks.
my apologies, my initial response was poorly worded, and I have amended it.

The big one I know if is intentionally de-magnetizing the rotor using prolonged heat for more RPM, this is only an advantage in racing where lots of time are spent near the top end of the motors performance but it can and has been done.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
This made me smile.

Like the motors they were using in Mini racing where the guys would put them in the oven to somewhat de-magnetize the rotor so it would spin more RPM. Or that guy (this wasn't sealed motor but locked timing) who de-soldered his hall effect sensors and re-soldered them with more timing. People are remarkably good at finding ways to get around rules.

If I was given a sealed motor I wouldn't mess with it, but that doesn't change that I know how to.
thanks for editing your post with legit concerns, I almost missed it.

baking a motor, noted. Something can-am can test and keep an eye on.

2nd point doesnít apply to Can Am since the motor is sealed and would fail tech if taken apart.


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Old 07-27-2018, 12:59 PM
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What I am saying is people will find a way to circumvent the rules, they always have. Hence the entire reason the can am program was started.

Amd as as stated before, this may work for large events and clubs, but your average weekend warrior club track doesnít have the time, money, or manpower to perform those kinds of checks on a regular basis.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Xpress View Post
Somebody could also hide a tiny 3rd cell inside their receiver case for extra voltage...

Somebody could inflate their tires thru the vent hole to stretch the circumference of the tire...

Somebody could cut a 55t pinion and stamp it as a 53t...

The funny part of all this seems to be the people for it have tried it....and the people against it have not?
Lol, I remember a stink where if you had a Novak ESC running on one cell with a two cell receiver pack (AKA, racing carpet oval, or 1/12 scale) and you plugged in the pack with the switch on, power from the receiver pack would bleed through to the motor. Not a lot... but enough. I didn't believe it so I had to try it with mine, and like magic the motor would turn with no main battery hooked up at all.

I think this lead to some regs where they had you pull your ESC's red lead wire from the receiver.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
What I am saying is people will find a way to circumvent the rules, they always have. Hence the entire reason the can am program was started.

Amd as as stated before, this may work for large events and clubs, but your average weekend warrior club track doesnít have the time, money, or manpower to perform those kinds of checks on a regular basis.
so because cheating is the norm now, we just accept it and carry on?

Weíve already covered how it works on a local level. Itís really not complicated.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:05 PM
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Imagine if people put forth their ideas for good vs cheating.

If you can only win due to cheating.. please think about not even attending a event. Mis-stamped pinions. Heated rotors.

​​​
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Imagine if people put forth their ideas for good vs cheating.

If you can only win due to cheating.. please think about not even attending a event. Mis-stamped pinions. Heated rotors.

​​​
I think you guys have that down, a locked endbell handout motor that the racers can take home, but can still be inspected later.

No need to get into things like "claiming motors" or anything along those lines. This, in my opinion, is the best option. It has well understood and enforceable rules, and still lets racers be racers.
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