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Old 03-13-2018, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
The Way to fix Stock is for the top 3 or 5 to move up a class thus giving the others the opportunity to improve.
Odd statement IMO. You are only improving if you are finishing in the top 3?
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:11 PM
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I think the most "equal" race I ever went to was an oval race at The Whip in Florida. It was a Trinity Speedworks race that had hand out motors and batteries along with an increased minimum weight from 42 ounces to 45. First time and probably the last time I saw top pros actually struggle to win against the average Joe. Joel Johnson ended up TQ still, but the pros were not "that" much faster than the rest. For example, I was a C-D main racer back then and I qualified 2nd in the B for that race, less than 5 seconds off TQ.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by COBRARACING View Post
A control motor will not fix stock racing because the racer who came first last year will come first this year as simple as that because his or hers success is in their driving ability and chassis setup nothing more nothing less.
The Way to fix Stock is for the top 3 or 5 to move up a class thus giving the others the opportunity to improve.
Control motor may it be fixed timing or not and a fixed FDR gearing will not solve anything.
The way I see it, control motors aren't about changing who wins. They're about reducing the costs involved in the motor-of-the-month wars. I'm happy finishing mid pack as long as I feel I drove well, but I'm not happy about having to buy a new motor every year just to maintain mid pack status and avoid being passed on the straights. The new ROAR rules might be sufficient to address that though.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
The way I see it, control motors aren't about changing who wins. They're about reducing the costs involved in the motor-of-the-month wars. I'm happy finishing mid pack as long as I feel I drove well, but I'm not happy about having to buy a new motor every year just to maintain mid pack status and avoid being passed on the straights. The new ROAR rules might be sufficient to address that though.
But doesn't it just move the 'war' to the next component? The esc, the radio, the chassis?
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
But doesn't it just move the 'war' to the next component? The esc, the radio, the chassis?
Not really. I'm hanging in the top 3 at club level right now with an old radio, my TC3, TC5 and Blaze R2 are all just as competitive, and there's not much distinguishing blinky ESCs other than smoothness at sportsman level. I've experimented with batteries by borrowing all types from others and definitely felt a punch advantage over the old dying 5500 saddle packs I had, but lap times didn't change much (I'm now using Turnigy or hand-me-down R1 batteries). You'd be chasing 10ths if you got into wars with that stuff. However when I got my R1 to replace my older Reedy motor last year I gained a full second per lap and went from mid pack to podium. Others saw my jump in speed and also bought the same motor as a result. You're never going to eliminate equipment from the equation, but lately motors have had too big of an influence.

I think our control motor rules were unfortunately timed. I would have been all for them until ROAR tweaked their rules, so the severity of the motor wars are likely to slow down anyway.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:28 AM
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The new ROAR regs regarding min resistance are an excellent step. Comparing a number of the modern 13.5 I have here resistance is very even. Less so in 21.5 though oddly.

*but* we are already now seeing increased development in rotors. Urgh.

And further, EFRA, BRCA and soon to be IFMAR (as they now need to approve stock motors for F1 and 1/12th) donít have the same restrictions (yet?) so we can now have a motor not allowed under ROAR, but approved by BRCA and in turn allowed under our rules.......!
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Old 03-14-2018, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cplus View Post
The new ROAR regs regarding min resistance are an excellent step. Comparing a number of the modern 13.5 I have here resistance is very even. Less so in 21.5 though oddly.

*but* we are already now seeing increased development in rotors. Urgh.

And further, EFRA, BRCA and soon to be IFMAR (as they now need to approve stock motors for F1 and 1/12th) donít have the same restrictions (yet?) so we can now have a motor not allowed under ROAR, but approved by BRCA and in turn allowed under our rules.......!
Fair point. I'm not against our control motor rules, just not as enthusiastically in agreement with them as I otherwise would have been.
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Old 03-14-2018, 04:25 AM
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The ROAR rules only work when checked at an event with a calibrated Instek meter. Look how many motors got rejected from many manufacturers at the last event. Iím certain most didnít even know they had a paperweight. Some sponsored some not. How many are out on store shelves, in cars that canít comply? EA and ROAR did the best that could be asked of them at the Nats. The rules were there in October and this stuff still happened. You might be able to fix this issue with handouts at a big event but at club level now days with the information we have itís like pissing in the wind. No real good answer other than in my opinion with the most recent information, stock racing at club level has two black eyes.
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by BullFrog View Post
Back in the old days in Florida our series sent out bids every year for stock motors. Each racer had 3 motors in the box. If you did not turn them in at the end of the race you could buy another. When I did a Region rave I got 3 cases of motors. Just to make sure every motor worked I tested each one and put them in three groups. The every best motor was keep out of the mix. A motor out of the first box won the region race. Only I knew that information. I was only one of three racers to do 16 laps on our track that weekend. The other 7 racers in the A were in the 15 lap range. I've never told anyone about what i did until now. Oh and I did not work on my motor or charge my batteries. I had other people do that for me as i was running the race.
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
It's hard enough to build motors with tight tolerances at the current price. If you drop the price that much, quality is the first thing to go.
Ok, then how did they keep the tight tolerances when they were making brushed motors? You still have the winds to consider, and the winds were the parts that were spinning. IMO there was more to go wrong in a brushed motor then a brushless.


Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
You can't ban an entire product range if a single motor is found out of tolerance at an event. Especially if you do that with a cheap motor. They'd all be banned pretty quickly.
Why not? It will keep the motor manufactures in check. Look at how many got tossed at the last event. Don't get me wrong, I know the intentions of anyone was not to cheat per say, but to push the envelope as far as possible. I get that, but where do you draw the line?
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:48 AM
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One thing I am trying to wrap my head around is that there are some who are against locked endbells. This was the norm for many years during the brushed era of racing. If I remember correctly, the only motor that you could change the timing in was a mod motor. 27 turn and 19 turn were fixed. Now we have efficient brushless motors, and we have made the speed controls that have a blinky mode, so why not lock the endbells, keep the tollerances on the winds of the stator, and make the rotor be a specific rotor? The fast guys are always going to be fast, no matter what the rules are, and I'm perfectly fine with that. But what I'm tired of is spending money on the "motor or battery of the week" just to keep from getting left behind. If we are going to keep going down the road of $$$, then lets open up the ESC's again with boost and trubo.

Guys, this is just my .02. Not trying to start a war or anything as suc, just want to see what others think of this. Thanks!
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:49 AM
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I think one that one person was on to something. I may have misinterpreted it and they already said this.
I think every manufacturer could build a spec locked timing motor to the same spec deminsions set forth by ROAR. Same exact size rotor sensor boards, stator and can length. Everything interchangeable. That way manufacturers could still be different in can design and they could still be competitive at the manufacturing level by what company can build the highest quality spec product. Another way is the Muchmore kv limited esc thatís used across the pond.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:17 AM
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Earlier this year several of the guys from our local club attended the Stockwars event at 180 Raceway in Baltimore. That event was run with handout Motiv motors that Paul Lemieux had tuned so that they were all as identical possible. The motors and the event were FANTASTIC. We all enjoyed the Stockwars race so much that, when we got home, our club reached out to Paul to see if we could get more of the very same motors so that we could copy 180's blueprint for our regular club racing. Thankfully Paul agreed to supply us with more spec motors and at really great pricing too. Everybody at our club has been enjoying the close, competitive, and AFFORDABLE spec motor racing ever since. Each week since we've made this change, we've seen at least one or two new drivers joining our group and our program continues to grow....largely because we run reasonably priced spec motors. Guys do seem to like that everybody is on the very same motor, and it sure doesn't hurt that nobody needs to chase the stupidly expensive motor if the month phenomenon in order to feel competitive. Big thanks to Paulie and Motiv for making this possible for us. His spec motors have really been a shot in the arm for our club racing program.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:19 AM
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A few ideas that could work ...
All motors that are built and sold have a security label specific to there name (like a glued screw or special stickers ,paint) meaning the manufacturer(or motor tuner) tested this motor and guarantees its legal at any and every race ... If it fails that motor from that suplier will have his motors pulled from a list of legal motors for the next event that agrees to this format. This would insure all manufactures stay honnest with there motors ...
Now for the individual that likes tinkering ... Can't think of how to inforce same rules to them ...so again just a idea...
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:25 AM
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I truly like the handout idea ... Companies bid to use there motors for said class at said event and event promoter chooses whos motor to use ... Just that simple ... That event is in charge of going thru motors (or paying motor supplier to go thru them to insure equality) and the end result is a even motor race with a cheaper motor price ... In time we would figure out one motor will work the entire event (no need to buy 2) so instead of sitting in tech for 1-3hrs we spend 30min getting tires/entry and motor .... Boom we don't have to spend 5 hrs going thru the 6 motors we have to build 3 just to go thru tech to find out 2 failed ....
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