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Handout motors

Old 04-04-2018, 12:35 PM
  #406  
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@jiml, the D3.5 situation was different from now, all we know at this point is that point is that previously greenlighted motors are being teched bellow the minimum. The D3.5 wire was measured after complaints so motors should go through ROAR tech again to settle this matter.

And I stand for what I said before, it wasn't a jab at ROAR or anyone, their work is fundamental but again it failed where it mattered. If there were repercussions from a bait and switch manufacturers wouldn't pull this out.

I've been saying this for years, on local tracks or select events a gentleman's agreement on which motor to run based on what most drivers can run is for the best. As Roelof said, doesn't matter what it is, only that all are close in specs.
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Old 04-04-2018, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Oh, I'm enjoying all of the disinformation everyone is posting about the D3.5 situation. I love the way some of you are lawyers suddenly. It would take far too long to explain what really happened, and many wouldn't believe it anyway. Remember this, the bottom line was Trinity sued RC racing.

Let me know where the disinformation is...

-D3.5 was clearly faster than anything else out there.
-It was found that they were using larger than the specified max wire diameter
-ROAR removed certain winds of the D3.5 from the approved motors list
-Trinity sued because something along the lines of: there are tolerances in manufacturing to a specified AWG and the ROAR rules didn't account well enough for this.
-ROAR reinstated the motors on the approved list for a roughly six month period, BUT... It didn't matter because 90% of the clubs and tracks across the country outlawed the motor even after they were added back to the approved list.
-Real bottom line???: D3.5 is still not an approved motor and Trinity did nothing for the customers who purchased them and couldn't use them.
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:05 PM
  #408  
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Wasn't the D3.5 issue something about not specified if the thickness of the wire was including the isolation layer or only the diameter of the copper wire itself?
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:21 PM
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no it was listed in electrical AWG measurements and the argument was something like " you have to allow for tollerances in manufacturing " now its CLEARLY outlined to not be any larger then .813mm ...
meaning if the wire is larger then that it is illegal without question...
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
no it was listed in electrical AWG measurements and the argument was something like " you have to allow for tollerances in manufacturing " now its CLEARLY outlined to not be any larger then .813mm ...
meaning if the wire is larger then that it is illegal without question...
Do you know what it means to reference AWG wire measurements on solid conductor?
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Old 04-04-2018, 02:31 PM
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no clue I only know basics only
but think that's why ROAR rewrote the rules and removed the AWG measurements from the "grey area"
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
no clue I only know basics only
but think that's why ROAR rewrote the rules and removed the AWG measurements from the "grey area"
The 17.5 motor wind started out as 2 parallel winds of 20ga AWG. The AWG designation for diameter is 0.0320 inches. By AWG definition, that is the maximum diameter for 20AWG wire. All manufacturing tolerances must be figured into constructing a wire that is 0.0320 maximum diameter. All wire manufacturers know this and build their manufacturing dies accordingly.
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by davidl View Post
The 17.5 motor wind started out as 2 parallel winds of 20ga AWG. The AWG designation for diameter is 0.0320 inches. By AWG definition, that is the maximum diameter for 20AWG wire. All manufacturing tolerances must be figured into constructing a wire that is 0.0320 maximum diameter. All wire manufacturers know this and build their manufacturing dies accordingly.
And that's where things get tricky. 0.0320 diameter in the AWG definition isn't a maximum, it's a nominal value.
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
And that's where things get tricky. 0.0320 diameter in the AWG definition isn't a maximum, it's a nominal value.
Correct it WAS a normal value ... But now it uses a value . and not a resourced vaule . so there is a clear line to not cross .... But didnt work
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
And that's where things get tricky. 0.0320 diameter in the AWG definition isn't a maximum, it's a nominal value.
Yes, sorry about that. Pulled it from the wrong column. I wanted to list 0.0323 inches. Didn't mean to deceive you.
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by davidl View Post
Yes, sorry about that. Pulled it from the wrong column. I wanted to list 0.0323 inches. Didn't mean to deceive you.
So do we get a refund since you "accidentally" deceived us ?
Or is a apology all we get ?
Cause I'm seeing #20AWG =.03196" =.812mm
Now ROAR's official # is .813mm maximum...
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
So do we get a refund since you "accidentally" deceived us ?
Or is a apology all we get ?
Cause I'm seeing #20AWG =.03196" =.812mm
Now ROAR's official # is .813mm maximum...

Here is your post #411 from above:

"no clue I only know basics only"

Now your are quoting specifications that are not basic, but rather complicated. Appears to me you are being deceitful with us. Or maybe someone more knowledgeable is telling you what to say and you don't do it very well.
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:31 PM
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That's 2018 rc right there.. Your deceitful and owe others a apology if you know more about something than someone else
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by davidl View Post
Here is your post #411 from above:

"no clue I only know basics only"

Now your are quoting specifications that are not basic, but rather complicated. Appears to me you are being deceitful with us. Or maybe someone more knowledgeable is telling you what to say and you don't do it very well.
See thats where appearance and reality get blurred ... You asked "Do you know what it means to reference AWG wire measurements on solid conductor". That sounded to me like some electrical engineering stuff being asked ... You didnt ask if I knew what all the #20AWG size references were ... 2 completely different questions . excuse me for thinking too in-depth of the actual question . honest mistake not intentional
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
See thats where appearance and reality get blurred ... You asked "Do you know what it means to reference AWG wire measurements on solid conductor". That sounded to me like some electrical engineering stuff being asked ... You didnt ask if I knew what all the #20AWG size references were ... 2 completely different questions . excuse me for thinking too in-depth of the actual question . honest mistake not intentional
Yes, it was a question about some sort of engineering stuff. I asked that because I was lead to believe by your one statement that you didn't have a technical/engineering background. And that is OK, there is no crime in that. But then you came back with a misspelled word about a nominal dimension, complete with sharing some detailed numbers that you would not have known without looking it up. That leads me to believe your in fact a technical/engineering type because you would have had to know where to find that type of information. So that lead to my next comment.
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Last edited by davidl; 04-04-2018 at 08:58 PM.
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