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Handout motors

Old 03-29-2018, 06:13 AM
  #331  
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Anyone else ever get bored at work and think I'm gonna check out rctech... then after reading a couple pages feel dumber for doing so and go back to work?
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Old 03-29-2018, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Racermac73 View Post
Anyone else ever get bored at work and think I'm gonna check out rctech... then after reading a couple pages feel dumber for doing so and go back to work?
*Raises hand*
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:21 AM
  #333  
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Same here.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:40 AM
  #334  
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Originally Posted by KE4PJO View Post
In a way the "brushless and Lipo" has taken a skill out of it, the ability to manage a race has been lost. The need to manage your "fuel" supply has been lost to the ages.
Make races longer. I have run upwards of 40 minutes with a VTA car. Have 2 minute rocket rounds for qualifying and 20 minute mains.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SocalSnakeEyes View Post
Again, what happened to braking classes down by skill as well as car type?
Two things. One is sandbagging. The other is when you start up a fun class, and everyone moves into it, the few top level racers left in the pro class think hey, there's 30 guys in that class, and 5 in ours. That looks like more fun. I'm going there. Defeating the purpose of the new class. That's what's happened to VTA

Is a intermediate VTA race a hard concept to grasp? Or Pro Stock Sedan?
Intermediate VTA is called USGT.

Or is that brushless and LiPo taken all the skill out racing so now only the cars can be used to brake things up?
No. Both have made racing much more enjoyable. I for one don't miss the brush of the week club and comm truing every round, or having to bring 6 battery packs with you because you could only use each pack once a day. With LiPo at the end of the run you just charge it back up.

I miss the days where the fast guys were fast because you know they had mechanical tuning skills as well as driving skills.
This is still true. You still need to know about setup, and the need for driving skills will never go away. The problem in electric racing is a good motor will overwhelm any lack of setup or driving skills. Handout motors takes care of that part of the equation, and makes racing more about driving.

We can argue theory all we want here. I can only go by practice. There's one track I know that has a handout motor rule for TC and 12th scale. The popularity of the class is tremendous. And the outdoor track that will open soon will use the same concept.
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Old 03-29-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mooby64 View Post
Make races longer. I have run upwards of 40 minutes with a VTA car. Have 2 minute rocket rounds for qualifying and 20 minute mains.
12th scale has been 8 minute heats and mains since the dawn of 12th scale, yet battery capacity has more than tripled.

And can someone explain to me why qualifiers and mains are the same length?
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:01 AM
  #337  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
12th scale has been 8 minute heats and mains since the dawn of 12th scale, yet battery capacity has more than tripled.

And can someone explain to me why qualifiers and mains are the same length?
unless practice allows for controlled class groups and a solid 8 minutes, then the 12th guys prefer the 8 minute qualifier to hone in on gearing and motor temp. TC with the big fans don't vary much a minute either way. 12th fall off fast and without a reference going in to a main blind would not be desirable. That said 10th used to be 4 then 5 now 6 some places, about time 12th got a little longer, I think 10 minutes would be awesome
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:09 AM
  #338  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
12th scale has been 8 minute heats and mains since the dawn of 12th scale, yet battery capacity has more than tripled.

And can someone explain to me why qualifiers and mains are the same length?
At big races u would be there for 38 straight hours for 1 qualifier
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:21 AM
  #339  
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
unless practice allows for controlled class groups and a solid 8 minutes, then the 12th guys prefer the 8 minute qualifier to hone in on gearing and motor temp. TC with the big fans don't vary much a minute either way. 12th fall off fast and without a reference going in to a main blind would not be desirable. That said 10th used to be 4 then 5 now 6 some places, about time 12th got a little longer, I think 10 minutes would be awesome
Which eliminates the whole concept of race strategy. Yea, I know, I'm in a tiny minority about longer races, but I think if we want big changes in the popularity of our hobby, we need to make big changes in the way we race. Just give this a thought; Touring car 4 minute qualifiers, 8 minute mains. 12th scale 5 minute qualifiers, 10 minute mains.

The one thing all racers hate is change. It doesn't matter what you're racing.

Originally Posted by Racermac73 View Post
At big races u would be there for 38 straight hours for 1 qualifier
And that's why I don't go to big races.

The length of the race day is one thing keeping people away from racing.
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Old 03-29-2018, 08:41 AM
  #340  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
We can argue theory all we want here. I can only go by practice. There's one track I know that has a handout motor rule for TC and 12th scale. The popularity of the class is tremendous. And the outdoor track that will open soon will use the same concept.
The common “thread” here is that “handout” / true spec motor classes thrive and are attractive to more people which has the most potential to bring new people in. Personally, I would never want to lose existing racers either, so the majority of classes should never exclude the existing base of motor tuners. So I believe a single slower class should always be the handout ( true spec ) motor class. Then the tuners can have their fun too in the faster classes and also spend as much money as they want to gain that edge. But I would suggest, for the love of the hobby, don’t stand in the way of this movement to true spec racing. It really is the best option for growth as the existing formula is failing. Sure, right now when the economy is doing ok and oil isn’t hugely expensive turnouts at big races is ok ( honestly , I think it should be much bigger per capita ) BUT what will happen when the economy is in the toilet and un-employment is high, people won’t have money to waste on the motor of the week. That’s when to judge what is working or not and I think it’s obvious for those hit hardest that staying home to play an Xbox will be what those people unfortunate to be hit by an economic downturn will do. That’s what will hurt manufacturers, hobby shops, and hobbiests alike.

Plan for the “rainy day”, or the hobby will suffer during down times, imho.

Jake

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Old 03-29-2018, 08:41 AM
  #341  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
And that's why I don't go to big races.

The length of the race day is one thing keeping people away from racing.
I would have to disagree with you there. I attended the champs last November and if I'm not mistaken I believe Ken & Shawn had to cut off the number of entries, and from what I could tell the place was packed. It was one the best big races I had ever been to.
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:57 AM
  #342  
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If I may add my 0.2c, I think only Magnet Top brought this point up.

Anyone starting out goes at the LHS or e-shop and gets a RTR to try racing. The included motor is typically "fast" and or a brushed one. Going to the track he's bound to have a bad time keeping the car between the boards, if the RD approaches him with a handout providing him a reasonable speed he can build upon with others of same skill that will be our spec Slash series. All one has to care is a lipo that fits the car (easy), a set of spec tires (easy) and the handout. I strongly believe that will lead people in.

Now at higher skill levels we read that motor tuning is a skill that has it place so handout doesn't have place there. Goes both ways for me. If I want to see how good I am against others, should my driving and preparation skills trump a bolt-on part that gives me advantage or not?

About number and duration of quals and mains I've already said what I think of those (QQQQQ-MMM doesn't work and is horribly set).
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Old 03-29-2018, 11:38 AM
  #343  
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Originally Posted by mooby64 View Post
Make races longer. I have run upwards of 40 minutes with a VTA car. Have 2 minute rocket rounds for qualifying and 20 minute mains.
When Harbor Hobbies ran the occasional 15 or 20 mains in VTA that was a lot of fun and with VTA our batteries barely noticed it , Some of the Fastest laps were towards the end of the race.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:03 PM
  #344  
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I have a easy solution to hand out motors in the Touring car field. Grow a big pair and strap a 4.5 turn in and let her eat...... No motor of the month or battery. If someone is faster it's because there a better driver with a better set up car.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:14 PM
  #345  
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Originally Posted by MUDVAYNE View Post
I would have to disagree with you there. I attended the champs last November and if I'm not mistaken I believe Ken & Shawn had to cut off the number of entries, and from what I could tell the place was packed. It was one the best big races I had ever been to.
Long race day on the local level is what I was referring to. Cleveland is a destination race. You go there because you want to go there. The time between races is spent watching what the pro guys are doing to try and learn, or hanging out with friends.
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