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Handout motors

Old 03-27-2018, 09:26 AM
  #271  
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
Wonder how some opinions on this thread would change if I actually posted IR numbers from some of the motors I've teched, interesting when compare the average of the shelf motor with the average "team" motor as well as the legal ones and not so legal ones. Wonder how many club guys are getting beat by 'better drivers' with those motors they know did not pass tech.
Post it up ! I do know that there was atleast one motor that passed tech at cleveland that hasnt passed anywhere else by a good margin and now I know as to why it dont pass ... It will never be ran at a race again not that I know . wish all compaines blatantly cheating were just banned from events for a set amount of time
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:57 AM
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How about all you high level pros on this thread just stop racing sandbagging spec classes and run more mod with a $30 motor from 6 years ago that is still competitive. Or just pay the money for the spec motor and press... its called racing not coupon club grocery shopping.

Oh and if ya really want to lose the Nancy-pants put foam tires on it.
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:01 AM
  #273  
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I agree post up the numbers. Maybe race directors and club owners can take notice of the big offenders and not allow those motors at their events. Maybe racers could get together and boycott the "cheater" motors. Unlikely, as we (collectively) will still pay more than the roar max price ($150) for a somehow legal motor...

In all honesty this motor thing is crap. We shouldn't need handout motors. There are rules in place that are supposed to make the spec motors comparable. Price, sponsorship and what motor your favorite racer is using should determine what motor you buy. Not which manufacture can skirt the rules the best.

This hobby that we choose to partake in is expensive, why do we want to make it more expensive by buying motors at events that we can't run elsewhere, and or, buying motors that if tech'd will require us to buy a different motor?

I have a lot more to say on the subject, but it is probably best if I don't say it...
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:16 AM
  #274  
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
Wonder how some opinions on this thread would change if I actually posted IR numbers from some of the motors I've teched, interesting when compare the average of the shelf motor with the average "team" motor as well as the legal ones and not so legal ones. Wonder how many club guys are getting beat by 'better drivers' with those motors they know did not pass tech.
Will posting any info change what/how the motor builders do business??
Will it change the buying habits of the hardcore racers?
Has all the bitching and moaning given you a better sense of what classes need spec motors?
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:40 AM
  #275  
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Originally Posted by mooby64 View Post
Will posting any info change what/how the motor builders do business??
Will it change the buying habits of the hardcore racers?
Has all the bitching and moaning given you a better sense of what classes need spec motors?
1) racers $$ decisions are the only thing to change the builders practices, or the governing body dropping the axe
2) more than the buying habits, the conversations, lets say he who screams the loudest....
3) YES, but some of the original questions have been brushed aside.

I think a handout/control/spec motor at BIG RACES is the proverbial writing on he wall, and the manufactures who complain about it are the ones to blame.

The real questions is method used a sealed motor possible luck of the draw similar to the old brushed days, or a tested, adjusted, then sealed motor. with cost and future usability being the side-affect
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:33 AM
  #276  
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
1) racers $$ decisions are the only thing to change the builders practices, or the governing body dropping the axe
2) more than the buying habits, the conversations, lets say he who screams the loudest....
3) YES, but some of the original questions have been brushed aside.

I think a handout/control/spec motor at BIG RACES is the proverbial writing on he wall, and the manufactures who complain about it are the ones to blame.

The real questions is method used a sealed motor possible luck of the draw similar to the old brushed days, or a tested, adjusted, then sealed motor. with cost and future usability being the side-affect
I would say a tested then sealed motor, but then how would you assure that the seal hasn't been tampered with or the motor broken into?
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:04 PM
  #277  
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so whats the solution?.....handout motors regulated by ROAR and event promoters? or let the new rules take shape and see what happens?.....or add that is company "A" has more than 5 motors of any class fail tech that motor is banned from the event?.... or just run Mod and VTA?...JS...
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:18 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
so whats the solution?.....handout motors regulated by ROAR and event promoters? or let the new rules take shape and see what happens?.....or add that is company "A" has more than 5 motors of any class fail tech that motor is banned from the event?.... or just run Mod and VTA?...JS...
new rules have been in place since September, and it's well known that more than 1 brand has questionable product on the shelves. Used to be ROAR was catching cheating racers, now they are catching cheater product with the racer left holding the receipt. I think the ONLY thing that restore some racer confidence and hold off handout motors is stiff punishment to the cheater companies.
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
so whats the solution?.....handout motors regulated by ROAR and event promoters? or let the new rules take shape and see what happens?.....or add that is company "A" has more than 5 motors of any class fail tech that motor is banned from the event?.... or just run Mod and VTA?...JS...
Didn't several companies have 25.5T motors fail tech at the ROAR Nats?

Not sure how running VTA would make a difference...
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:35 PM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
Wonder how some opinions on this thread would change if I actually posted IR numbers from some of the motors I've teched, interesting when compare the average of the shelf motor with the average "team" motor as well as the legal ones and not so legal ones. Wonder how many club guys are getting beat by 'better drivers' with those motors they know did not pass tech.
So let's have transparency and post the numbers. I know a guy I race with claims he had a monster in the low 17s IR. I think as consumers of these expensive products we have a right to know, especially since all the manufacturers claim roar approved.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:52 PM
  #281  
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Originally Posted by trilerian View Post
So let's have transparency and post the numbers. I know a guy I race with claims he had a monster in the low 17s IR. I think as consumers of these expensive products we have a right to know, especially since all the manufacturers claim roar approved.
Rest assured I have seen low 17s out of the box, seal broken in my presence. There are also tricks to get border line motors to pass. I have seen 25.5 try to slip through at 98.5ish, over sized rotors, short stacks, and other things "not as produced at the factory". ROAR Nats saw motors fail from multiple brands, as did Champs and Snowbirds. Knowing some of the drivers affected, I'm positive most of those failures were not tampered with.

I agree with a lot of the people on here who have said the results would be the same, but I also know there are a lot of drivers with the ability to podium or make the show, who are showing up to a gun fight with a squirt gun.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
new rules have been in place since September, and it's well known that more than 1 brand has questionable product on the shelves. Used to be ROAR was catching cheating racers, now they are catching cheater product with the racer left holding the receipt. I think the ONLY thing that restore some racer confidence and hold off handout motors is stiff punishment to the cheater companies.
now thats sounds good

Originally Posted by iTz Nicholas72 View Post
Didn't several companies have 25.5T motors fail tech at the ROAR Nats?

Not sure how running VTA would make a difference...
it was only one company that Im aware of. If it was others I didnt here of it. Also even with VTA using the ROAR 25.5 list, we kinda police ourselves. At the major USVTA races, that wont fly either...and most of the "guys" that have those are not running that brand for said reasons. Once its fixed by the company, and re-approved by ROAR, then its all good again.


Originally Posted by trilerian View Post
So let's have transparency and post the numbers. I know a guy I race with claims he had a monster in the low 17s IR. I think as consumers of these expensive products we have a right to know, especially since all the manufacturers claim roar approved.
I say lets do it. The consumer needs to know that this or that motor is having issues and to be aware that the shelf bought motor may or may not pass tech. And the motor comany needs to make it right.

But lets be honest, if you have an illegal motor that didnt pass tech at a major event cause they pulled all the rules from the book...you are not going to just throw it away...you will keep it and boost your ego at the club level, or go to an event with laxed tech and clean house....you know Im right.

great IDEA.....

ROAR, post a video on youtube or on your page to show how to properly tech motors and show the dos and donts. Everything from room temp to the way you hold your mouth to check poles A and B. Show us what to look for, and how to catch the problem before it gets out of hand
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:16 PM
  #283  
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How many actual brushless motor manufacturers do you think there are in the World? Where do you think the majority are actually manufactured? Asia, where they will cut each others throat for a dime? Do you think that Trinity, TSR, Motiv, Maclan, Reedy, Actinium and so on and so on actually make anything more than a bag with a label on it? They are all buying blanks so to speak probably from the same oriental low bidder that is supposed to build to a specification requested by the above named "manufacturers" but after the first few dozen start to take their shortcuts to be able to produce a couple extra of the specified motors with the material that was supposed to be installed in the first place to make up for the loss on the low bid. Now we blame our beloved manufacturers for bending us over and driving it home with a "cheater" product. Are they guilty? Probably a little or maybe more but they're getting shafted as well. I'm not siding with them but in an outsourced economy the end user gets to eat the biggest portion of the sh1t sandwich. The only solution is to not buy. That action goes all the way back to the actual manufacturer.

What do we do in the meantime? Use last years bullet. If it is a 17.5 event then everybody brings a 17.5 motor with identifying marks and puts in a box. Everybody draws one(you can't get your own) and races. Nobody will bring a rocket that they don't get to use and it isn't likely that anybody will drop in a turd either cause your name is on it. When the event is over you get your Barney Fife bullet back. Is this the solution? No, but it is "A" solution for what could be done until the dust settles on all crap that is going on. It doesn't require any company selections or shunning. To the so called "team" driver that wears his T-shirt and acts like the head of Hugo while planning his vacation on the money he is saving from his 15% discount I say, "suck it up". If that motor you put in the pot is that good your sponsor still gets the win. Maybe in better hands.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:30 PM
  #284  
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Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
How many actual brushless motor manufacturers do you think there are in the World? Where do you think the majority are actually manufactured? Asia, where they will cut each others throat for a dime? Do you think that Trinity, TSR, Motiv, Maclan, Reedy, Actinium and so on and so on actually make anything more than a bag with a label on it? They are all buying blanks so to speak probably from the same oriental low bidder that is supposed to build to a specification requested by the above named "manufacturers" but after the first few dozen start to take their shortcuts to be able to produce a couple extra of the specified motors with the material that was supposed to be installed in the first place to make up for the loss on the low bid. Now we blame our beloved manufacturers for bending us over and driving it home with a "cheater" product. Are they guilty? Probably a little or maybe more but they're getting shafted as well. I'm not siding with them but in an outsourced economy the end user gets to eat the biggest portion of the sh1t sandwich. The only solution is to not buy. That action goes all the way back to the actual manufacturer.

What do we do in the meantime? Use last years bullet. If it is a 17.5 event then everybody brings a 17.5 motor with identifying marks and puts in a box. Everybody draws one(you can't get your own) and races. Nobody will bring a rocket that they don't get to use and it isn't likely that anybody will drop in a turd either cause your name is on it. When the event is over you get your Barney Fife bullet back. Is this the solution? No, but it is "A" solution for what could be done until the dust settles on all crap that is going on. It doesn't require any company selections or shunning. To the so called "team" driver that wears his T-shirt and acts like the head of Hugo while planning his vacation on the money he is saving from his 15% discount I say, "suck it up". If that motor you put in the pot is that good your sponsor still gets the win. Maybe in better hands.
An interesting idea, but I don't want my personal motor being cooked by some idiot who cranks the timing or overgears since they're not risking their own motor.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:33 PM
  #285  
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Mike,
I am intrigued by the idea. One initial concern is that I bring a legal, average motor and hope that everyone does the same. You draw the motor that I brought and crank it to the max and don't run a fan, overgear, etc. You run it at 200+ degrees and now it's ruined. What then?

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