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Handout motors

Old 03-23-2018, 08:48 AM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
So what will you do with your $150 R1 motor now ?
As for vta and usgt they have there own set of rules and what not .. I'm mostly referring to the Tc&1/12th classes . vta has had a pretty good standing with the 25.5 for the most part till the R-1 and I'm sure some others will follow start to sell motors faster than aloud . the Novak 25.5 race rule seemed to be the greatest thing to many . now that its opened up to all manufactures the class has slid off the charts at all major events where there was 2-3 heats when it was Novak only . vta is coming back in our area due to new blood and Myron which is awesome but again R1 has taken everyone for a ride unless they submit a new motor for inspection . and the trinity issue with them using larger wire ,canton is trying to push theirs thru with it as well ... No its not legal but noone said they cant sell it . so we the racers buy it not knowing these things cause it looks to be fast on race day just to find out its illigial at the big races
My $150 R1 motor doesn't exist. My $110 R1 motor is in my VTA car for local racing because everyone understands that the motors didn't pass due to a process issue, not because they're faster. To wit, the fastest two guys in the class aren't running them; those R1s aren't faster than other available motors, and an R1 motor hasn't won the A at our track since I won last month due to the fast guys being away

Anyway, as I said before, yes, that was a problem. But it isn't a systemic problem, and it has nothing to do with the motor war justification that people use for wanting handout motors. Totally unrelated, even though it definitely sucked.
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Old 03-23-2018, 09:32 AM
  #257  
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What I am going to suggest only applies at large events, each manufacturer that wants their motors used should supply ahead of time for tech inspection for legality their motors, then they can be purchased at the event. All brands must be sold at the same price what ever that may be. As motor are checked before by tech you know you are purchasing a legal motor what ever brand it is and you can take it with for club racing or practice
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:15 AM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by dietDrThunder View Post
If a new hot motor appears on the ROAR list but is not widely available, that's a ROAR list problem, not a spec motor problem. IMO the OEM should be able to demonstrate reasonable availability in order for the motor to be on the list.

An easy way to address this is to have event-specific lists that are published well ahead of big events. That way a new hot motor can't appear the week before Nats (for example) that nobody can buy, but a few top placed people mysteriously have them.

Easily addressed without spec motors.
The IIC (Vegas), the US Champs (Cleveland), the snowbirds, and most of the big races, are not ROAR races.
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:24 AM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
The IIC (Vegas), the US Champs (Cleveland), the snowbirds, and most of the big races, are not ROAR races.
This is true but they still go by roars list of approved motors . they just dont always have the correct IR numbers to check for which is why at some races you see some drivers outrunning others by laps ... And more spread between each driver . not to mention the posibility of getting motors passed under the table (not saying they are) but since only the person testing the motor can see the numbers theirs still a posibility of error .
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:44 AM
  #260  
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motor must be availible for 3 months to be legal at major events....and the race promoter should apply this when he/she starts promotion.

No a $150 motor for VTA is not a win, but if I take my $100 Motiv and pay EA to tune it with all the goodies, like bearings and setting the timing?.....I still payed $150.

and the R1 issue is an R1 issue, not a USVTA issue, or ROAR issue....which is why R1 is fixing the issue.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:23 AM
  #261  
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handout motor = closer racing = more fun ~ less cost.
Yes, finishing order will usually be similar but closer ( more fun racing for all ) will result. Itís a proven result from this format.

ONE class at every club should be like this. The rest can remain as is.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:05 PM
  #262  
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This motor thing has gone crazy no matter what some of you might say. I came back from 2 y of absence of racing a few months ago, and the motors ppl were using at my local track were just insane to say the least. A guy hit my car on a straightaway when I was ahead of at least 15 feet as if he hit a stationary car. My car ended up having completely destroyed rear. I was at a full speed. Granted I was using old ass 1st version of Reedy motor. But still 17.5T is 17.5T. Speed should have been staying very close old or new, 1 brand or another. And my Reedy was dyno'ed and I did my best to keep it fastest and optimal. Now I have Team Scream The One which is very fast and I can keep up with most of the crowd. Still some of them are faster than me on the straightaway and I simply don't understand it. According to them, they use normal batteries, don't overcharge and don't cheat on motors. But who knows? I know it's not the gearing or drive train that get me slower than those. Just for the heck of it, my friend lended me a pack of fully charged HV battery telling me to beat those 2 faster guys but still couldn't do it, including on the straightaway. All I could think of was the motor.
I don't know spec motor or not is the right path and it's up for a, probably endless, debate but it seems to me, for now, spec motor, ROAR legal or not, should be used for a fair playing field.
By the way, buying 3 motors for a season (I don't know if you were referring for an entire year or literally a season) to keep up with the crowd, although I can afford it, for a non pro racer, is hideous idea. Don't make this hobby any more expensive than it already is.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:27 PM
  #263  
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I know your pain, if you was running an older Reedy or past gen motors against the newer stuff...yes you are out to lunch. But you should know that most of the newer motors are close...only a few "fast" guys can utilize the few 10th you gain with the lastest greatest hottest motor. And if you tap one board that pipe dream is over really quick
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:44 PM
  #264  
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ive said this before, but numbers dont lie.....leave a good thing, A good thing

US Indoor Champs
494 entries
17.5 12th scale
87
17.5 TC
69
21.5 TC
20
USGT
60
Total 236 entries

Snowbirds
340 entries
17.5 12th scale
47
17.5 TC
46
21.5 TC
41
USGT
31
Total 164 entries

ROAR Carpet Nationals
201 entries
17.5 12th scale
28
17.5 TC
38
21.5 TC
30
USGT
30
Total 126 entries

Canadian Nationals
508 entries
17.5 12th scale
82
17.5 TC
88
21.5 TC
25
USGT
96
Total 291 entries

last 4 major onroad events.... with almost half the entries for the event....Im lost?... Ive always was to believe if a class is doing well like 17.5 or 21.5 that why would we mess with it....obviously the classes are doing just fine if racers are turning out events in classes that the average motor is over $100 and is ROAR legal.

When I see numbers like this and dont get me wrong I only run GT out of the listed classes, I can not understand what the issue is. If your club thinks its a great idea I say go for it....

But as a racer and promoter, I dont see the issue. The largest classes out of any carpet onroad event and we are looking to change this ....CAUSE OF WHAT?....

oh I I didnt even include Vegas, sorry Scotty
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Old 03-23-2018, 02:46 PM
  #265  
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and also...most of these events the entry is $100 or more
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:59 PM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
The IIC (Vegas), the US Champs (Cleveland), the snowbirds, and most of the big races, are not ROAR races.
We can feel free to substitute whatever sanctioning/enforcement body runs those races (or whatever the races run under) for ROAR. Same effect.
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:19 PM
  #267  
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FYI...All of the 21.5 classes at IIC were handout motors.
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:57 AM
  #268  
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Ok, so after my having gone on and on (and on) about how handout motors are ineffective, I learned some things this weekend after talking to people who know, that have me on the way to changing my mind. I am not knowledgeable enough to comment about any specifics, but I will say that none of my 'stop complaining about the unfair playing field' comments were made with anything approaching a full appreciation for how not-fair it actually is, for big events in particular.

For club racing, I stand by everything I said.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:04 AM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
ive said this before, but numbers dont lie.....leave a good thing, A good thing

US Indoor Champs
494 entries
17.5 12th scale
87
17.5 TC
69
21.5 TC
20
USGT
60
Total 236 entries

Snowbirds
340 entries
17.5 12th scale
47
17.5 TC
46
21.5 TC
41
USGT
31
Total 164 entries

ROAR Carpet Nationals
201 entries
17.5 12th scale
28
17.5 TC
38
21.5 TC
30
USGT
30
Total 126 entries

Canadian Nationals
508 entries
17.5 12th scale
82
17.5 TC
88
21.5 TC
25
USGT
96
Total 291 entries

last 4 major onroad events.... with almost half the entries for the event....Im lost?... Ive always was to believe if a class is doing well like 17.5 or 21.5 that why would we mess with it....obviously the classes are doing just fine if racers are turning out events in classes that the average motor is over $100 and is ROAR legal.

When I see numbers like this and dont get me wrong I only run GT out of the listed classes, I can not understand what the issue is. If your club thinks its a great idea I say go for it....

But as a racer and promoter, I dont see the issue. The largest classes out of any carpet onroad event and we are looking to change this ....CAUSE OF WHAT?....

oh I I didnt even include Vegas, sorry Scotty
But the part your missing is most (not all ) manufactures are cheating in some of not all 2nd-3rd-...... Batches cause the kids winding them are not going as good as intended so they (-*#.#_!."_#?'_#) so they get faster motors that as as good as there submission #s ... 1 does it then another... And here we are only left with one maybe 2 honnest suppliers of motors... So knowing for a fact there are cheater motors setting on shelves in hobby shops that will not pass tech who wants to go do a big race and intentantly cheat (but say you have no clue ) ... Thats why handout has to happen ... The greedy manufactures all over again but not just one this time ...
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:10 AM
  #270  
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Wonder how some opinions on this thread would change if I actually posted IR numbers from some of the motors I've teched, interesting when compare the average of the shelf motor with the average "team" motor as well as the legal ones and not so legal ones. Wonder how many club guys are getting beat by 'better drivers' with those motors they know did not pass tech.
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