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Handout motors

Old 03-20-2018, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J View Post
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how about just have mod class 21.5 and 17.5 is so close in times at almost every track .

class should be 25.5 blinky and mod
A 25.5 timing/boost class may work, but I think a 21.5 boosted class may be better. Probably closer to 17.5 hot motor classes that we have now. Mod TC is fun, but one does wear tires more.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SouthFloridaApp View Post
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A 25.5 timing/boost class may work, but I think a 21.5 boosted class may be better. Probably closer to 17.5 hot motor classes that we have now. Mod TC is fun, but one does wear tires more.
I remember years ago 13.5 boosted were melting esc’s at Kraceway I myself melted two, but software has changed so who knows
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
And that's why one motor is key . if motors are checked like Paul does his the problem will disappear . a company makes a motor with a certain strenth rotor that is checked
A stator with a close ir between them and a adjustable sensor board they get assembled and set identical within 2° of timing (so they all have simular rpm) and use them for the event ... Just like stock wars. Boom after the race is over you can adjust the timing and run it at club level if that wind motor used is aloud
This is very much the route we have gone with control 21.5t (R1) motor out here. All motors come in checked by R1, then we (the EP ONR section) have set them all to a tight Kv tolerance, sealed them, and then sent out to be purchased.

The racers have two choices in there own time. Run them as is with the seals in place and at the limited Kv, or rip the seals off and set them as they want.

But come a sanctioned event, any motor presented to tech without seals will be checked, reset back to the Kv level, and resealed. We have left gearing open to allow some tune ability given the wide variety of tracks raced on, but the Kv level does also serve to slow 21.5t down, which frankly was getting out of hand for the supposed first rung on the ladder.

Throw in we have a quality motor that is operating in quite a limited manner, they run super cool, and should be bullet proof in terms of reliability.

First test comes next month with the first event using the motors, proof will be in the on track results
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:18 PM
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I am running a 13.5 boosted in Mod TC......medium size asphalt track (Village RC Raceway) and zero issues with my ESC, motor, battery.....
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
You don't have rules limiting how many motors can be presented to tech? We're allowed 2 at initial presentation, and extras are only allowed on a case by case basis after that.
3 passing motors per class entered was the limit .
But most races here allow you to tech all the motors you want ...
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Old 03-20-2018, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
3 passing motors per class entered was the limit .
But most races here allow you to tech all the motors you want ...
That seems like a pretty big loophole.
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Old 03-20-2018, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
We have left gearing open to allow some tune ability given the wide variety of tracks raced on, but the Kv level does also serve to slow 21.5t down, which frankly was getting out of hand for the supposed first rung on the ladder.
Hang on, I thought we weren't intentionally aiming to slow the class down. We were explicitly told this, when people worried that they'd be as slow as the juniors cars.
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
Hang on, I thought we weren't intentionally aiming to slow the class down. We were explicitly told this, when people worried that they'd be as slow as the juniors cars.
It’s not “intentional” at all.

But like anything racing;

- fast
- cheap
- reliable

Pick two. So the motors will be a bit slower than if they had their timing screwed higher - 2600-2700kv is easily achieveable from this motor - but it will come at the cost of reliability.

Having said that, if the masses use this motor at a few races and decide they want them all screwed up to 2500/2600/2700 - it can be done at zero real cost.

That’s a good part of this model.
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Old 03-20-2018, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex View Post
Hang on, I thought we weren't intentionally aiming to slow the class down. We were explicitly told this, when people worried that they'd be as slow as the juniors cars.
Speed of class was not mentioned in the proposal (proposal document is here, go to page 6) and I personally don't recall it being mentioned during the discussion either.

Frankly though the Kv level set would make it pretty obvious that the motors won't be being pushed too hard. And as mentioned above, the option exists with ZERO financial effort, to increase the performance if that's the way racers want to go.
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Old 03-21-2018, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J View Post
1

how about just have mod class 21.5 and 17.5 is so close in times at almost every track .

class should be 25.5 blinky and mod
Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
Not a bad idea really ...
Actually it's a gawd freakin awful idea.

The problem with open (it's not mod anymore) is it's too hard on equipment to race week after week. You can see how well cars handle with slower motors. With the faster motors you're stressing all the components of the car. Even with spec tires you're going to be changing them more often. And whatever you do, don't tap a board.

Closeness in lap times has never proven to be a motivating factor. This has been presented time and time again with little improvement in turnout.

The one idea that has been working is the track owned handout motor. The part everyone likes is this fixes the cost of the motor. No motor of the week, and no buying 10 motors to find the one that works.

The real test of any idea is how well it works on the local level. Car counts at big races are misleading, since people are going to these races no matter what. The more racers on the local level, the more likely the track stays open.
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jiml View Post
Actually it's a gawd freakin awful idea.

The problem with open (it's not mod anymore) is it's too hard on equipment to race week after week. You can see how well cars handle with slower motors. With the faster motors you're stressing all the components of the car. Even with spec tires you're going to be changing them more often. And whatever you do, don't tap a board.

Closeness in lap times has never proven to be a motivating factor. This has been presented time and time again with little improvement in turnout.

The one idea that has been working is the track owned handout motor. The part everyone likes is this fixes the cost of the motor. No motor of the week, and no buying 10 motors to find the one that works.

The real test of any idea is how well it works on the local level. Car counts at big races are misleading, since people are going to these races no matter what. The more racers on the local level, the more likely the track stays open.
Of course people like it, other people are shouldering the costs. Handout motors is like socialism: works great until you run out of other people's money.

To me, the whole handout motor thing is a false equivalency. The people clamoring for it think it solves the 'deeper pocket' problem because other people have deeper pockets. In the end, after jumping through all these hoops to get 'equality', does the finishing order really change that much?

Mark C
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by scirocco14 View Post
Of course people like it, other people are shouldering the costs. Handout motors is like socialism: works great until you run out of other people's money.

To me, the whole handout motor thing is a false equivalency. The people clamoring for it think it solves the 'deeper pocket' problem because other people have deeper pockets. In the end, after jumping through all these hoops to get 'equality', does the finishing order really change that much?

Mark C
The finishing order probably won't change that much, but, it will let drivers have more time to work on other things such as chassis tuning and driving a better line than having to worry about getting out horse powered down a straight.

At my local track the GT12 class is gaining momentum as it is more of a drivers class. Someone said something to me last weekend about if we should allow pro drivers or "factory guys" in the class. If I get beat, so what? Now I can work on driving a better line and see what the fast guys are doing and learn from that.
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDVAYNE View Post
The finishing order probably won't change that much, but, it will let drivers have more time to work on other things such as chassis tuning and driving a better line than having to worry about getting out horse powered down a straight.

At my local track the GT12 class is gaining momentum as it is more of a drivers class. Someone said something to me last weekend about if we should allow pro drivers or "factory guys" in the class. If I get beat, so what? Now I can work on driving a better line and see what the fast guys are doing and learn from that.
Exactly ...
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:59 AM
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Depends on what handout motor they spec. 180 uses a team powers fixed timing motor that is less than the price to use it for the season. So the racers are actually paying for the motors. Sure, the shop paid for them up front, but in the end, they’ll get a return on them.
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:16 AM
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OK. Then what's next? A handout chassis? I'm tired of racing against Awesomatix and Serpents with my 5 yr old Xray T4 '13. That's not fair. . If we truly want to make it fair, and only depend on driver ability, then that's the only way to go.

Mark C.
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