simple

iTrader: (2)

While I appreciate the help and enjoy the setup comparisons, reading over the last couple pages I've gotten the impression there is some confusion between measuring downstop and droop.
While a droop gauge can be used for indicating an equivalent down-stop setting at each corner of the chassis suspension arm ends.....it is not a true indication of droop.
I'm not in any position to lecture on setup theory, but that much I am sure of.
For further reference - I recommend this file
http://www.hudy.net/xhudy/showfile.php?file_id=439&crt=eed5af6add95a9a6f1252 739b1ad8c24

The problem that I was experiencing was that with the manual directed suspension settings, including shock locations, camber, and down-stop; there was ZERO droop.

JC3

iTrader: (8)

Per the Hudy manual you referenced, "Droop is sometimes interchanged with downstop. This is correct and incorrect. Droop is in large part affected by the downstop setting, but is also affected by ride height adjustment." Hence what is called a droop over ride height measurement. Also, per the Hudy manual, "Downstops limit how far the wishbones travel downward..." Downstops allow you to keep the arm travel equal side to side. Droop tells you how much the chassis travels at a given ride height and a given downstop setting.

You said, "I did however discover that the when having the droop screws backed off and removing the shock entirely, the down travel of the arms is limited by the uprights! I exaggerated the proximity of the arm to the chassis at the down stop location. The clearance is actually only 2mm." So, Gary showed you downstop settings. He also said to, "...disconnect the steering link and the inner upper link from the bulkhead and see if the arm drops." Then you showed us a droop measurement with your calipers. So, I agree, there was some confusion.

21 & 22mm on the camber links (per the manual) isn't much. I don't know what that equates to in camber but I doubt it's 5 degrees. You said " I had been experimenting with camber and the current setting was 5deg on the front." So, apparently you dialed that much camber in and shortened up those camber links and locked up the arms. The problem that you were experiencing was due to excessive camber.

All in all this was a good lesson. There are limits to the amount of camber you can dial into a chassis. Something I'd never considered.

Below is Gary's counterpart, team driver Edward Pickering on the subject of Droop:

Nerobro

iTrader: (2)

FIVE degrees of camber? That's.. some experimenting. :-) What tires were you running with that?

Airwave

iTrader: (1)

that's why the hub is touching the arm... No?

simple

iTrader: (2)

Rock hard out of the pack USGT spec pre-mounts from Gravity Racing on a cold Canadian Friday November evening

Yes

simple

iTrader: (2)

Spot On!! Me neither.....
That's why I was stumped. I'd never experienced a suspension setting limitation by "excessive camber" in all the XRAY, Tamiya, Associated, chassis I have owned over the past 20yrs.
Nonetheless, I expect this Ghost to be serious contender next time out.

cosmicpilot

? You got a new steering rack ..cool.. Whats the part # looks more sturdy than the one it came with..

JC3

iTrader: (8)

I did. It already has a problem though. Might be a bad bearing but I haven't investigated it yet. Will advise. Also, be aware that another G18 user told me that the D10 rack will indeed fit. However, I haven't actually seen one that has been installed yet. The D10 rack is a good bit less expensive. So, if it fits, that's the way to go.

Update: One of the four bearings in the kit was indeed bad (sloppy loose.) Jeez.

Nerobro

iTrader: (2)

Uh. Well... that's a thing. :-) Keep your tires in your pockets between rounds?

old_dude

iTrader: (1)

Just an update on my results with the G18. I ran this past weekend at the US Indoor Champs in the VTA class. It was a good weekend with me landing in the "A" sort all weekend. I qualified 5th. overall amongst a slew of Awesomatix cars (chassis of choice if you can afford it). An early mistake and an encounter with another car (his mistake) put me last in the 8 minute main early but I worked my way back to a 6th. place finish. I will take that especially with the two shunts. In reality, I had nothing for the top 3 but I had a shot speed wise at 4th.

JC3

iTrader: (8)

Congratulations Ron! I was looking over the results Sunday night and was impressed to see that you had made it to the A and also done so well. It would have been cool to watch you battle it out with Von. You've done an impressive job with the G18. If you ever care to share a setup sheet for black carpet we'd love to see it. I still can't find heavier sway bars that'll fit the G18 and my attempt to get my old TC4 bars to work was a fail.

Johnny Wishbone

iTrader: (6)

Is there something special about the G18 bars? Because I'm using bars that range from going back to Xray T3 series cars, AE cars and if I don't have a specific one Ill go to the hobby shop and pick up some piano wire and bend my own. As long as it fits between the bulk heads a bar is a bar is a bar.

You can go to Live RC and watch the video.

JC3

iTrader: (8)

You'll probably appreciate this Gary. The outside width of the two bulkheads on the G18 is 32mm. It's 30mm on a TC7.1 and 29mm on a D09. Ron mentioned that he is using a 1.8mm TC3 swaybar up front. I tried my TC4 swaybars but didn't really appreciate the way that they fit plus they have a bend in them. So, didn't work for me. Haven't tried bending one myself but it might be time to give it a try since I can't find a car that has bulkheads that wide.

I did watch the race on Sunday night. Good stuff!

My G18 got trounced by a professionally set up TC7.1 driven by a club member in USGT. Lot's of work to do to catch up with him. I did however beat him with the TC7.1 in the VTA main.

old_dude

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Just remember I am 67 years old and I think I had 20+ years on the next oldest racer in that main.
On the bars, you need to relieve the retaining brackets a little to get those big bars on. You must also drill out the connector ball that goes on the bar or use a different one. The 1.8 ish that is on the front requires collars to keep it centered as the slot in the kit retainer is too small. The rear works fine with kit parts but still needs relieved on the retainer clips for a 1.7 ish bar. I will try and get a setup sheet posted.
On a interesting note: I didn't traction roll the car one time all weekend and was still fast. I did fall out of the 4th. qualifier with an esc issue. Get this, the car began behaving erratically and I pulled it over. The racer that picked it up burned his hand on the chassis it was that hot. The motor wasn't hot at all. Bench tested the esc on Monday and found where it ran a motor as expected it gradually got hot and fast after 2 minutes it was 130 degrees running a 17.5 with no load on the motor. Looks like trash can time.

Johnny Wishbone

iTrader: (6)

If you can find old bars from a T3 Xray it will be a better spacing and they made a quite the selection from a 1.1 to a 1.8, they have a lazer etch on them for identification. But getting some piano wire and duplicating the bend you have in a existing bar should be very easy to duplicate, two bend and your done. After all the re-engineering you've had to do, this should be simple, lol. I did a search and the same bars are listed for the D09 as the G18, but now I wonder again. The only downfall is that the 1.4 is the biggest bar they list, so no good for you guys.

We have been messing around with getting rid of front bars and going to heavier springs, there may be something there, especially on black carpet, with high traction making tires do weird things.

If your trying to get more steering out of your usgt car, try using thinner rear hexes, sometimes a wide rear will over traction the front causing pushes.

Ron, your not old just well seasoned. I'm in that same boat. Kind of laugh when they come up with classes for 40+ or 45+......where were they 15 years ago, LOL.