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Understanding F1 Tuning: Letís break it down

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Understanding F1 Tuning: Letís break it down

Old 02-17-2019, 10:51 AM
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Default F1 tire comparisons?

Been searching the forums, can't find a clear answer. Hudy F1 tires, are they in fact Ride GR's? Which compounds? Also testing and comparisons are out of date, anyone have some current data? With Pit Shimizu looking like they are out of business or changing hands (who knows for sure), go to tires are now a question. I always went with 571/572 compounds for carpet but all the tire comparison data was on grey carpet and now there are new tires. Anyone able to steer me to the thread if this has already been discussed?
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:57 AM
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Hudy are Ride GR. Ride GR is only one compound, GR.
Rumor says Shimizu is OK, also since CRC tires are Shimizu I would bet they are fine.
For black carpet most use CRC or Shimizu 571/572, same tire
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Old 02-20-2019, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
Hudy are Ride GR. Ride GR is only one compound, GR.
Rumor says Shimizu is OK, also since CRC tires are Shimizu I would bet they are fine.
For black carpet most use CRC or Shimizu 571/572, same tire
Thanks on clearing up the ride/Hudy/compound question. So they are the same shore front and rear? That would surprise me. As for an up to date tire comparison, that still needs to be answered. Pits/CRC are my go to tire but an up to date comparison would be great cus I am wondering about scenarios where the ride from or volante tires might be superior.
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Old 02-20-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dman18t View Post
Thanks on clearing up the ride/Hudy/compound question. So they are the same shore front and rear? That would surprise me. As for an up to date tire comparison, that still needs to be answered. Pits/CRC are my go to tire but an up to date comparison would be great cus I am wondering about scenarios where the ride from or volante tires might be superior.
The Ride have no options for hardness etc, well except GR-x fronts, which are useless, so it doesn't matter if they are different hardness front to rear, and they work well together.

Really unless you are on carpet the Shimizu rear's aren't as good as Ride or Volante. For front tires it's up for debate, some like tamiya kit, which push off the track for me.
You just have to try and see what works at your track. I never agreed with the shimizu chart anyway.
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Old 02-20-2019, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
The Ride have no options for hardness etc, well except GR-x fronts, which are useless, so it doesn't matter if they are different hardness front to rear, and they work well together.

Really unless you are on carpet the Shimizu rear's aren't as good as Ride or Volante. For front tires it's up for debate, some like tamiya kit, which push off the track for me.
You just have to try and see what works at your track. I never agreed with the shimizu chart anyway.
I agreed with that chart but for carpet always. 571 &572 is king. What are rides and volante like for carpet compared to pits on black carpet?
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:31 PM
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Default Ackerman

With most F1 cars the Ackerman can be adjusted but explain scenario to achieve what end?

I am under the impression that if the angle of the Links to the knuckles will increase the initial aggressiveness of turn in.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dman18t View Post
With most F1 cars the Ackerman can be adjusted but explain scenario to achieve what end?

I am under the impression that if the angle of the Links to the knuckles will increase the initial aggressiveness of turn in.
The more the links angle back, the more aggressive the steering usually feels to me. At the same time, you're dragging the inside wheel more. That has helped me more on asphalt, where there can be a lack of mid corner bite on the front end. On carpet going too far in this direction can result in a car that parks or roasts the
fronts off.

Less angle tends to make the car roll better through the corner. I tend to like it a little better on carpet, though if the car is working right its probably faster on asphalt too. I used to run a lot of angle on Tamiya cars, but i think as the cars got better it was not so necessary.

There's also a lot of importance to the way the servo is mounted or if you have a bellcrank. Servo shaft towards the front of the car will be different to the shaft pointing up. I felt like the shaft pointing towards the front was more aggressive initially but pushed out mid corner. Shaft up seemed to have more steering throughout the corner but less aggressive. Bellcranks i do not have a ton of experience with but i thought it was like shaft up in general.

Remember your servo saver has an effect if you are coming straight off the servo. Wider spacing usually was less aggressive for me than closer spacing of the ball studs.

Im a little ambiguous about this since Im not a big expert other than stuff i have tried. Beyond that there is a lot of interplay between all of the above and heights of the ball studs on the knucles and servo saver/bellcrank. Its pretty powerful in terms of making the front end work but it can get goofy as well. Im pretty sure i have dialed myself out more than once fooling around too much with this.

Last edited by robk; 03-17-2019 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:16 AM
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What about droop on F1? I setted up my F6 to the manual and that equals like 4-5mm droopt at the front axle?! Good idea to "play with that"? And I cant wrap my head around the side springs. Bouight the Tamiya pack but cant compare to the kit ones - anyone ideas which spring to put in when? been running a dead flat small black carpet track....
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by robk View Post
The more the links angle back, the more aggressive the steering usually feels to me. At the same time, you're dragging the inside wheel more. That has helped me more on asphalt, where there can be a lack of mid corner bite on the front end. On carpet going too far in this direction can result in a car that parks or roasts the
fronts off.

Less angle tends to make the car roll better through the corner. I tend to like it a little better on carpet, though if the car is working right its probably faster on asphalt too. I used to run a lot of angle on Tamiya cars, but i think as the cars got better it was not so necessary.

There's also a lot of importance to the way the servo is mounted or if you have a bellcrank. Servo shaft towards the front of the car will be different to the shaft pointing up. I felt like the shaft pointing towards the front was more aggressive initially but pushed out mid corner. Shaft up seemed to have more steering throughout the corner but less aggressive. Bellcranks i do not have a ton of experience with but i thought it was like shaft up in general.

Remember your servo saver has an effect if you are coming straight off the servo. Wider spacing usually was less aggressive for me than closer spacing of the ball studs.

Im a little ambiguous about this since Im not a big expert other than stuff i have tried. Beyond that there is a lot of interplay between all of the above and heights of the ball studs on the knucles and servo saver/bellcrank. Its pretty powerful in terms of making the front end work but it can get goofy as well. Im pretty sure i have dialed myself out more than once fooling around too much with this.
To continue with what Rob has here, ball stud height affects bump steer. I typically set the car for zero bump steer. I will sometimes use bump out if the car is twitchy getting into the corner. Small differences will make a big change in the car so don't go crazy. Adjust in .25 to .50mm amounts maximum. For bump out you will only need a slight amount to settle the car.
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Old 03-18-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by man1ac View Post
What about droop on F1? I setted up my F6 to the manual and that equals like 4-5mm droopt at the front axle?! Good idea to "play with that"? And I cant wrap my head around the side springs. Bouight the Tamiya pack but cant compare to the kit ones - anyone ideas which spring to put in when? been running a dead flat small black carpet track....
Front droop is typically .50 to 1.0mm over ride height. Rear is 1.0 to 2.0mm over ride height. Less for high traction obviously.

Side springs, Rob has a better description on these but, if the car is traction rolling, softer is better.
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:07 AM
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So when I run on medium grip, big asphalt track with about 4,5mm ride height, what droop do I run? For starters...droop should be the value below the steering axle on the hinge pin?
​​​​​​
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by man1ac View Post
So when I run on medium grip, big asphalt track with about 4,5mm ride height, what droop do I run? For starters...droop should be the value below the steering axle on the hinge pin?
​​​​​​
For asphalt, start on the larger side of the droop range. So for the front 1.0mm over ride height and 1.5-2mm for the rear. To measure it, have the car set at ride height. Pick the front of the car up by the center of the wing until the front wheels just start to come off the board. Slide your ride height gauge under the chassis and see what the height is. Subtract that from your ride height and you have your droop value.

To measure the rear, pick the car up by the rear ball cup on the center shock. When the shock stops extending, measure under the center of the chassis at the pivot.

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Old 04-02-2019, 06:10 AM
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Speaking of asphalt, I was testing Volante tires at our 1/8 scale track last week in 60* temps. I ran Blue/Purple and Green/Double Purple. Both sets basically acted the same.

I was loose braking for the turn after the sweeper, Loose coming out of slow corners, and loose on a high speed 45* turn. I've got a standard asphalt setup, but there is something weird about this track that likes a stiffer spring when the traction is low. So I increased my front spring from 1.2C to 1.8C (Ride springs) to keep the front from diving too much and pulling the rear wheel up. Marginal improvement. I'm going to test even stiffer springs later, but wanted to know how the side springs affect the front rolling.

Do stiffer side springs help prevent the front of the car rolling by using the rear pod as an "anchor", thus keeping the front from diving in too much?

Or, do I need softer side springs to allow the front to dive and keep the pod level? It seems weird to soften the side springs and oil to do this when every set up book says you need stiff springs on low traction asphalt.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by xevias View Post
Speaking of asphalt, I was testing Volante tires at our 1/8 scale track last week in 60* temps. I ran Blue/Purple and Green/Double Purple. Both sets basically acted the same.

I was loose braking for the turn after the sweeper, Loose coming out of slow corners, and loose on a high speed 45* turn. I've got a standard asphalt setup, but there is something weird about this track that likes a stiffer spring when the traction is low. So I increased my front spring from 1.2C to 1.8C (Ride springs) to keep the front from diving too much and pulling the rear wheel up. Marginal improvement. I'm going to test even stiffer springs later, but wanted to know how the side springs affect the front rolling.

Do stiffer side springs help prevent the front of the car rolling by using the rear pod as an "anchor", thus keeping the front from diving in too much?

Or, do I need softer side springs to allow the front to dive and keep the pod level? It seems weird to soften the side springs and oil to do this when every set up book says you need stiff springs on low traction asphalt.
Stiffer side springs transfer weight faster thus loading the tire quicker and making more grip. Try reducing rear droop, this will unload the rear less off power and help with the loose into the corner condition.

For pan cars, good rule I follow is to keep going up on center spring/oil until the car gets lazy in chicanes, then back off one step. This should make max rear grip for you and you can adjust to add more steering in later.
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Old 04-02-2019, 03:11 PM
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What you need is better tires.....
Also Volante really needs wide front end conversion to really work at all
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