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Understanding F1 Tuning: Letís break it down

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Understanding F1 Tuning: Letís break it down

Old 03-12-2018, 09:19 PM
  #136  
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Hi All, new to F1. Iíve been running 12th scale stock and mod. Iím wondering if I should set the esc the same way as I have my stock 12th car....no drag brake and only about 10 percent overall brakes. This is commonly how we run. I am used to finessing the car and scrubbing speed.

Any suggestions on esc setup would be most appreciated. Iíll be running a Justock esc with the tcs required Reedy Mach 3 25.5 motor.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:11 AM
  #137  
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It depends on the track and your driving style. I personally set a relatively high drag brake (30%) and have the esc programmed for 100% brake at full trigger throw. I then tune the push brake to the track from the radio.
Rubber tire cars do not drive like foam cars at all. You will have to set them into the corners with the brake.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:58 AM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by JeffofSpace View Post
Hi All, new to F1. Iíve been running 12th scale stock and mod. Iím wondering if I should set the esc the same way as I have my stock 12th car....no drag brake and only about 10 percent overall brakes. This is commonly how we run. I am used to finessing the car and scrubbing speed.

Any suggestions on esc setup would be most appreciated. Iíll be running a Justock esc with the tcs required Reedy Mach 3 25.5 motor.

Thanks in advance!
zero drag brake for me. I back up the corner by rolling off throttle, and use push bake only. I adjust my brake setting to not lock up the brake on the fastest first corner I come into. Even then its only a very quick brake stab/touch.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:37 AM
  #139  
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Just learn to use push brake, you will be faster in the long run.

you will be slower at first and then you will be fast

I use zero drag brake everywhere at any track
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:46 AM
  #140  
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are you guys using toe out more for stability or turn in? because i cant remember my F1 being unstable on black carpet.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:50 AM
  #141  
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I have gone less toe out because of stability still looking for sweet spot
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:40 PM
  #142  
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I'm new to f1, and 1/10 scale. Had my 2nd race this past weekend. Still dialing in the car and getting used to the scale, carpet, transmitter... i haven't raced in the last 4 years. Coming from only racing brushed mini-z, there is a lot to learn but I'm coming along pretty well, and I am loving f1 racing.

I have drag brake up to 40% on the ESC, push brake at 100, and find it comfortable for my driving style. I always tended to use higher drag brake motors in mini-z, and used drag brake adjustments to dial in the attitude of the car in the mid corner.

I am planning on reducing drag brake a little in the next race and try to make the front end a little more aggressive. I found mid corner speed was a little less than I wanted, so plan to go .5d camber higher for next race.

There is a lot to learn about setup with these cars, and so far my bench build has been good with small tweaks each time I hit the track.

Last week I ran into a lot of small setbacks in the first day running the 17 Xray x1, scrambling to figure out gearing and struggling with a HW quicrun ESC that was giving intermittent loss in power (swapped in a justock this week and much of my headaches went away) I was much closer to the pace this past race.

I have been looking at a lot of setup sheets, not to copy the setup but to understand what adjustments were being done to suit specific tracks, and hunting down the videos for the races from the setup sheet to see how the car behaves.

Here is the race result and video of my last race, any critique is welcomed. The blue car should have won the race, but waited after we had a racing incident on lap 12 (then got stuck on tape on the outside rail when starting up again)

http://360v2.liverc.com/results/?p=v...ult&id=1219470
The setup is basically kit default, with aluminum chassis. 1.5 camber, 6d caster. I don't have any option springs yet. I had to shim the montech front wing up to keep from hitting the track, and trimmed the lower outer edges a little for some clearance.

Last edited by EMU; 03-13-2018 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 03-13-2018, 10:45 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by phatboislim View Post
are you guys using toe out more for stability or turn in? because i cant remember my F1 being unstable on black carpet.
Turn in. F1 seem to inherently push.
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Old 03-14-2018, 01:08 AM
  #144  
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Hi robk thanks for the props a few pages back brother.
Drag brake FTW!

By the way guys, robk's last name is King, birth name and as far as I'm concerned when it comes to F1 RC cars, the name was earned.

First guy I ever got advise from when entering F1 on foams, about 2009 ish which got me up to speed quickly.

Tamiya is my home track, my F1 cars can get around that asphalt track (and a couple others around here).

My thoughts on drag brake:

IF you are sharp enough to be a consistent "finger" braker, you don't need any drag brake.
That's braking every corner, every lap all day long. I know a couple guys good at that.
That aint me, no way.

My drag brake is my cheat mode so I don't have to think, once it is set up for the fastest corner on the track i.e. the 180 right after the WFO sweeper at the end of the straight.

First I was taught to set up the max brake value for that same corner.
Push full brake at that 180 and let it step out but not spin out, controllable, never a panic braking situation.
My radio says that value is about 60%.

Drag brake on my esc is set so that when I let off at that 180 (later than you ) the car will drive about 1 foot past the corner, not quite enough to turn in as tight as I need but almost.

Now I fine tune the drag brake with the throttle trim clicked back increasing braking til the car turns in within inches of that same corner. Steps out a little maybe but won't spin out.
If I take the trim too far back, it of course turns in too tight and I'm on the bump/board, you get the idea.
Drag brake is now adjustable to current track conditions from the radio.
Once set for that race, (done during warm up laps), the car can almost put 2 wheels on the paint of each corner without me having to think about finger braking, I'm just lifting off the throttle and gettin it in then full punch and gettin it out.

My set up is to also have the car push just enough not to spin out when exiting corners full punch, toggle switch throttle, again don't have to think about it. Heck, it's only a 25.5 now
My goal is to be last off the gas into and first back on the gas out of each corner.

Thats my recipe for my "Monkey Car". a monkey could drive it.

Of course none of this shite works with out the right tire choices

Last edited by F N CUDA; 03-14-2018 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:09 AM
  #145  
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F N CUFA, you more or less described how I like to setup the car for drag brake/brake. For me, it allows me just to focus on riding the front end into the corner coming off the throttle more to tighten the radius, and working the throttle to control the attitude of the car.

I am rarely off throttle entirely except for the slowest corners. For stock motor classes, I tend to run positive throttle curves and/or punch as well to give similar feelings of throttle ratio to where the power is delivered. I am running close to 50 positive in my f1.

I don't think the driving style works for everyone, but for me it allows me to focus on the consistency of the car, and feel that point in the throttle where the car is happy in the corners and makes its rotation going from brakes to throttle application.
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:11 AM
  #146  
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And there you have the wide, wide world of F1 braking. It is something that is truly a fit for driving style, layout and surface. If you are coming from foam tire racing it will probably be a whole new world.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:47 AM
  #147  
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My drag brake use is strictly for asphalt due to the lack of rear grip which I've never been able to reach the point of having enough. Tires did get MUCH better but for me are still just missing the locked in feel I'd love to have.

If I had ever been able to have enough rear grip exiting corners I would not have had to reduce the front grip/steering in order to not be loose on the throttle.

With the push I have set up in my car I can easily be full punch out of corners without having to pedal the throttle but the car will not turn in without braking which as I mentioned before, I am not disciplined enough to do with the trigger for every corner all day long.
Enter: drag brake mode for me.

Carpet however is another story for me.
I'm not the carpet guy (see robk ) but I can get around when I go there.

So much grip on both ends of the car that I've never needed drag brake or push brake except for avoiding parked cars etc.

Trick for me here is to get somewhere between flippin out of control and pushing like the bulldozer.
Get it right and I can scrub enough speed by just steering and still get thru the corners.
Duh, right?
Not my easiest puzzle to complete.
Whole new ball game and honestly not my favorite, at least on rubber tire F1 car.
F1 200mm on foams, let's roll.

Carpet on rubbers gives me tourettes syndrome, #[email protected]% &*%$!!!!!
Yet to try running on black carpet, I've been told I'd love it.
We'll see about that someday.
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Old 03-16-2018, 11:52 AM
  #148  
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So had something weird happen to me at the race on Sunday (Asphalt). Down the back stretch (other places too) I was exhibiting, for lack of a better explanation, a bouncing feeling. The front of the car seemed to be bouncing causing the front wing to scrape the ground.

Car felt fine and other than the front wing smacking it didn't seem to really impact performance or drivability (at least none my meager skills could detect).

Traction was high. What would cause something like that?
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:49 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by mstrfahrenheit View Post
So had something weird happen to me at the race on Sunday (Asphalt). Down the back stretch (other places too) I was exhibiting, for lack of a better explanation, a bouncing feeling. The front of the car seemed to be bouncing causing the front wing to scrape the ground.

Car felt fine and other than the front wing smacking it didn't seem to really impact performance or drivability (at least none my meager skills could detect).

Traction was high. What would cause something like that?
bumps or out of round tires or some part of car bottoming out

run some diff lube on lower front kingpins, it will help some

remember F1 front ends do not have shocks, so no dampening, thus bouncy
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Old 03-18-2018, 08:11 PM
  #150  
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Okay -- okay-- you CAN teach an old dog new tricks!! I LEARNED today that drag brake is my friend in F1!! You can't get these pigs to turn like a 1/12 scale car!!! So drag brake at least on asphalt is a necessary evil!! With help from Rocket Rob-- I took 1/2 second off my lap times by dialing in my Tekin Pro ESC with DRAG BRAKE!! WHODA THUNK!!?? FN Cuda and others are RIGHT!! Drag brake works for F1 and my WGTR car!!
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