Most Complete Touring Car???
11-18-2002, 12:22 PM
#1
Most Complete Touring Car???
What's the most complete kit available? I'm not asking which car is the best, or which car has the most podium finishes...
I'm looking to get a new kit, but I really don't want to have to purchase a bunch of extras. Each manufacturer seems to have its "Top-of-the-Line" car, but they all seem to have optional parts. If I have to buy optional parts, let's keep the number of available parts to a minimum.
So, if there was a high end TC comparrison chart, which kit would be the most "complete"?
I'm looking to get a new kit, but I really don't want to have to purchase a bunch of extras. Each manufacturer seems to have its "Top-of-the-Line" car, but they all seem to have optional parts. If I have to buy optional parts, let's keep the number of available parts to a minimum.
So, if there was a high end TC comparrison chart, which kit would be the most "complete"?
11-18-2002, 12:58 PM
#2
Most "complete" kits:
Team Associated Factory Team TC3
Team Losi XXX-S Graphite Plus Edition
Yokomo MR4TC Special
X-Ray T1 2
There are probably others, but those are 4 that I am familiar with. The TC3 and XXX-S do not come with a one-way, nor does the X-Ray (to my knowledge) so those are about the only things I can think of that you would still need to buy.
Team Associated Factory Team TC3
Team Losi XXX-S Graphite Plus Edition
Yokomo MR4TC Special
X-Ray T1 2
There are probably others, but those are 4 that I am familiar with. The TC3 and XXX-S do not come with a one-way, nor does the X-Ray (to my knowledge) so those are about the only things I can think of that you would still need to buy.
11-18-2002, 02:17 PM
#3
RCLAB 7even EVO but I am biased!!!
Comes pretty hopped up with oneway and all carbon fibre and bearings and stuff...
Very balanced and easy to drive... and tuff if you crash it.... only hop up I recommend is 5 degree caster block.....
my 2cents worth
Comes pretty hopped up with oneway and all carbon fibre and bearings and stuff...
Very balanced and easy to drive... and tuff if you crash it.... only hop up I recommend is 5 degree caster block.....
my 2cents worth
11-18-2002, 02:26 PM
#4
Tamiya 414M2- all the hop-ups in the box..... there are no options unless you really want the front ball diff....LOL
Schumacher Mission carbon- front one-way and threaded shocks (not necessary)
Atlas YM-34si- all the parts in the box except front ball diff and fixed center pulley....
Schumacher Mission carbon- front one-way and threaded shocks (not necessary)
Atlas YM-34si- all the parts in the box except front ball diff and fixed center pulley....
11-18-2002, 02:46 PM
#5
Tech Legend
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I agree with Futureal said about the most complete cars.
The FT TC3 is a great one and can be run box stock and be fast. The MR4TC Special is also a great stock car (I have one) if you want one ways as a standard setup. The XXXS Graphite version would also be a great car. These are the main 3 that I like.
Other honorable mention are the Schumacher Mission Carbon Pro, Tamiya 414M2 or Xray. Not a big Xray fan mainly the price and the original was a total ripoff of the Corally.
All the top cars as above can win box stock. Most of us just like to buy a few option parts as they can make any of the top cars better on certain tracks.
The FT TC3 is a great one and can be run box stock and be fast. The MR4TC Special is also a great stock car (I have one) if you want one ways as a standard setup. The XXXS Graphite version would also be a great car. These are the main 3 that I like.
Other honorable mention are the Schumacher Mission Carbon Pro, Tamiya 414M2 or Xray. Not a big Xray fan mainly the price and the original was a total ripoff of the Corally.
All the top cars as above can win box stock. Most of us just like to buy a few option parts as they can make any of the top cars better on certain tracks.
11-18-2002, 02:48 PM
#6
I would agree with futereal. The tc3 comes with everything you could really need execpt for the oneway. I have a oneway for mine but rarely use it. You can set the car up just fine without it. I am not to sure on the setup of a xxxs most people I know with one are using the oneway in theirs but I don't know if it is needed. The rclab car looks nice but parts are a on-line order only thing and that can be a pain but from what I have heard the car is durable and may not need many spares but racing things do happen and you need to be prepared with spares or have them on you lhs wall. The mission is also a nice car and they do very well at the track I frequent but they also have the parts issue allot of tracks do not support schumacher. The x-ray is also another very well equipt car and it does come with a center one-way the parts for the car are very expensive (but very high quality) and to run on a high bite track the optiona c-hub retrofit seems to be needed and that is like $200 or more to change it over. If I were you I would consider the new soon to be release full option Losi or the Tc3 factory team I think they will suit your needs very well.
11-18-2002, 03:05 PM
#8
Tech Apprentice
Originally posted by IMPACTPLAYR
The X-ray could also be known as the most COMPLICATED touring car!!! LOL
The X-ray could also be known as the most COMPLICATED touring car!!! LOL
I'm thinking of buying one...
11-18-2002, 03:08 PM
#9
Originally posted by IMPACTPLAYR
Atlas YM-34si- all the parts in the box except front ball diff and fixed center pulley....
Atlas YM-34si- all the parts in the box except front ball diff and fixed center pulley....
11-18-2002, 03:15 PM
#10
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THe Xray is very adjustable and for many it just has too many adjustments. The more you can adjust a car the more you can get wrong. It is sometimes overwhelming for newer racers and even some pros.
What make some of these top cars so good is are very adjustable but don't go over board. The TC3 and MR4TC series are like that. It is easy to see why they are still some of the best cars out even after 3 years. Alot people think you need to have the most adjustments to be fast but fact is it is not true. More often than not you will have the wrong setup if you have too many things to adjust and have wrong.
Remember the saying: Keep it simple stupid. With lots of adjustments could come lots of headaches.
What make some of these top cars so good is are very adjustable but don't go over board. The TC3 and MR4TC series are like that. It is easy to see why they are still some of the best cars out even after 3 years. Alot people think you need to have the most adjustments to be fast but fact is it is not true. More often than not you will have the wrong setup if you have too many things to adjust and have wrong.
Remember the saying: Keep it simple stupid. With lots of adjustments could come lots of headaches.
11-18-2002, 03:38 PM
#11
I disagree about the mission carbon, I think it has alot of things missing, such as titanium turnbuckles, allen head screws, threaded shocks.
My list would include:
FT TC3
Yokomo MR-4 Special
XRay T1 evo 2
Tamiya 414M series
RCLab
Losi Graphite Plus
You're always going to have to buy springs and various other tuning options such as castor blocks. Also whether the kit includes one-ways or not depends on personal preference. I almost would rather the kit include one-ways than difs, as diffs are cheaper to buy than one-ways.
My list would include:
FT TC3
Yokomo MR-4 Special
XRay T1 evo 2
Tamiya 414M series
RCLab
Losi Graphite Plus
You're always going to have to buy springs and various other tuning options such as castor blocks. Also whether the kit includes one-ways or not depends on personal preference. I almost would rather the kit include one-ways than difs, as diffs are cheaper to buy than one-ways.
11-18-2002, 03:40 PM
#12
If you take a TC-3 or MR4TC or the like, you can't really change the wheelbase or track, not too much anyway. You have adjustments for droop but not uptravel (bumpstop). Adjusting the toe in the rear won't change the track and most of them use blocks to change the rear toe and caster settings.
The X-Ray (and others like it) is a pivot ball car. The number of settings availble is far above the average TC. This is very good if you have the instruments to measure all of it (and I mean ALL of it) and know what they all do and what to adjust for. But you have to be careful - if you adjust rear toe, for example, you could change the rear track. . .been there and done that with the GT-4.
If you want an X-Ray, make sure you know what you're doing first. . .
The X-Ray (and others like it) is a pivot ball car. The number of settings availble is far above the average TC. This is very good if you have the instruments to measure all of it (and I mean ALL of it) and know what they all do and what to adjust for. But you have to be careful - if you adjust rear toe, for example, you could change the rear track. . .been there and done that with the GT-4.
If you want an X-Ray, make sure you know what you're doing first. . .
11-18-2002, 04:17 PM
#13
Pivot ball suspension means more un-sprung weight out on the arm.
11-18-2002, 04:25 PM
#14
To follow up on my first post, I think an important thing to take into consideraton is where you are situated in the world. Parts support is everything.
When new racers walk into our track, I always tell them the same thing. If you're on a budget, start with a basic TC3 kit (or RTR) or a basic Losi kit. If you're willing to spend a little more, get the FT TC3 or the XXX-S Graphite Plus. Period.
Why?
Because in the central US, those are the ONLY two cars that you will find parts for in every hobby store. Nothing, and I mean nothing is going to turn a new racer off to the hobby faster than breaking something on their brand new car and having to wait for parts for it. Time and time again I have seen guys kick down the money for a new "exotic" TC and bring it to the track, only to break something and be shocked that the stores don't carry the part (and in some cases can't even order it).
I'm not digging on any other cars or any other manufacturers, but it just makes no sense for someone in an area like this to buy something like an X-Ray, unless they know exactly what they are doing and what to expect with it.
My experience with hobby stores across the US has been this:
Plenty of Parts:
Associated (TC3)
Losi (XXX-S)
Decent Parts:
HPI (Pro 3)
Yokomo (MR4TC)
Schumacher (Mission)
Tamiya (414 -- parts support varies a lot by geographic region in the US)
Tough to Find:
X-Ray (Serpent, importer I believe)
RCLab (7even)
Atlas (imported by Integy?)
etc.
Now don't get me wrong, I love some of those more exotic cars, and the X-Ray is certainly a competitive chassis and a capable racecar, and finely tunable, but unless you happen to be in an area where a lot of guys run X-Rays and the hobby shop stocks parts, I wouldn't recommend it. The average shop will not have the parts. Now once again, if I were talking to an experienced racer who understood that they would have to be ordering stuff on-demand, this wouldn't be a factor.
Another important note on my above list is that HPI parts are normally easy to come by, but moreso for their nitro products than the Pro 3 electric. I see Yokomo and Schumacher parts here and there, but as with the X-Ray, it is usually not unless there is a strong following for those cars in the area.
I myself run a Yokomo and a Losi. I have to order my Yokomo parts from a local dealer, whereas the Losi stuff is always in stock. It's just something you have to deal with. But I wouldn't want a new racer to have to deal with it.
When new racers walk into our track, I always tell them the same thing. If you're on a budget, start with a basic TC3 kit (or RTR) or a basic Losi kit. If you're willing to spend a little more, get the FT TC3 or the XXX-S Graphite Plus. Period.
Why?
Because in the central US, those are the ONLY two cars that you will find parts for in every hobby store. Nothing, and I mean nothing is going to turn a new racer off to the hobby faster than breaking something on their brand new car and having to wait for parts for it. Time and time again I have seen guys kick down the money for a new "exotic" TC and bring it to the track, only to break something and be shocked that the stores don't carry the part (and in some cases can't even order it).
I'm not digging on any other cars or any other manufacturers, but it just makes no sense for someone in an area like this to buy something like an X-Ray, unless they know exactly what they are doing and what to expect with it.
My experience with hobby stores across the US has been this:
Plenty of Parts:
Associated (TC3)
Losi (XXX-S)
Decent Parts:
HPI (Pro 3)
Yokomo (MR4TC)
Schumacher (Mission)
Tamiya (414 -- parts support varies a lot by geographic region in the US)
Tough to Find:
X-Ray (Serpent, importer I believe)
RCLab (7even)
Atlas (imported by Integy?)
etc.
Now don't get me wrong, I love some of those more exotic cars, and the X-Ray is certainly a competitive chassis and a capable racecar, and finely tunable, but unless you happen to be in an area where a lot of guys run X-Rays and the hobby shop stocks parts, I wouldn't recommend it. The average shop will not have the parts. Now once again, if I were talking to an experienced racer who understood that they would have to be ordering stuff on-demand, this wouldn't be a factor.
Another important note on my above list is that HPI parts are normally easy to come by, but moreso for their nitro products than the Pro 3 electric. I see Yokomo and Schumacher parts here and there, but as with the X-Ray, it is usually not unless there is a strong following for those cars in the area.
I myself run a Yokomo and a Losi. I have to order my Yokomo parts from a local dealer, whereas the Losi stuff is always in stock. It's just something you have to deal with. But I wouldn't want a new racer to have to deal with it.
Last edited by futureal; 11-18-2002 at 04:27 PM.
11-18-2002, 06:31 PM
#15
In Hong Kong and Japan, majority of the racers use both front and center one way. But there are still some upgrade parts came out for the Si.
Here are some of the option parts for the SI:
30mm gold shaft (the original shaft is just way too short to make it 64mm in length)
3mm higher rear mount (which raise the roll center for the rear)
0.5mm shift to the rear in the front knuckle
Delrin rear Diff
Gold pins for the A arms and uprights
The most complete cars in my list is:
FT TC3
TRF414M2 WCR
LOSI XXX-S Graphite Plus
X-Ray T1 Evo 2
Here are some of the option parts for the SI:
30mm gold shaft (the original shaft is just way too short to make it 64mm in length)
3mm higher rear mount (which raise the roll center for the rear)
0.5mm shift to the rear in the front knuckle
Delrin rear Diff
Gold pins for the A arms and uprights
The most complete cars in my list is:
FT TC3
TRF414M2 WCR
LOSI XXX-S Graphite Plus
X-Ray T1 Evo 2