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Old 02-03-2006, 11:23 AM   #61
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I will say this...American have a horrible work ethic. Especially people comingout of trade schools and college nowadays where they think they are entitled to everything and don't have to earn it. I own a construction company, and do you know how hard it is to find people that have drivers liscences, pants that fit, and and understanding of the English language....nearly impossible, and they all feel they deserve $30 and hour. So yes, Jim Ryan, you are an idiot. Foreign manufacturing will always be less expensive and sometimes subpar in initial stages, but in the end, yu can't beat it. I hate to tell you, but alot of parts of you american made cars are made overseas, you are just too naive to know it.
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:26 AM   #62
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My pants fit....
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Old 02-03-2006, 11:53 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by YR4Dude
I am not trying to argue with you because I too used to be in the manufacturing field. However, you can't stop free trade. Yes, we will lose these jobs to competitive out sourcing from China and throughout Asia. But look at it this way, we also lost many jobs domestically to cheap labor coming from across the border.

Are these the jobs we want?

We all should strive for jobs that are better than that which can not be replaced by cheap labor or even worse, a machine. So bye, bye, labor intensive, long hours, lousy pay with no benefits, poor environment job. Please take it and make some good cheap products so that I may spend the paycheck from my IT, Biotech, high tech job and buy twice to maybe three times more of everything cheap labor makes.
Everybody can't work in IT biotech and hightech,nor do they want to.I work in Manufacturing and I have a very good job and I bet a majority of the people here don't make half of what I make and would kill for a job like mine,extremely good benefits and extremely good environment,all manufacturing is not in sweat shops and is not labor intensive,there has to be somebody that can run the robots! And I bet they don't make $3 an hr either,anywhere.Besides last time I checked IT jobs were going away also so that's not a field I would want to be in either.Yes a lot of the jobs that are being lost are the low pay jobs to begin with,but it's the high paying $75K+ jobs that should worry people,these are the ones that will lower our standard of living.
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:59 PM   #64
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barely Craig.....just barely
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Old 02-03-2006, 04:05 PM   #65
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Sadly, $30 an hour isnt really all that much these days.

Hyper is right, not everyone can do those types of jobs. The problem then comes to a point that since those jobs are gone, people get educated to do something else, then you flooded the market with college grads who cant get jobs. Ive actually seen ads requiring a BA in Business to do a customer service rep job that paid $10 an hour. How can you live off that ?
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:04 PM   #66
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$30hr isn't all that much? depends on where you live,it's the highest paying hourly job in this state,it's why we are being flooded with people from the states with rediculous cost of living IE:California,new york etc etc.$10hr won't cut it anywhere in the US,even here.
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:25 PM   #67
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If manufacturing jobs are lost overseas, the people that lost these jobs need to be trained in another field. Those manufacturing jobs are going to produce goods for a cost that is substantially lower than what it could have been done in the US. This means people that live here in the US will be able purchase more products. If there is more consumers in the US than there will be more of a need for sales associates, and other fields that deal with the distribution of these products.
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:26 PM   #68
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Im from California where an old house in a crappy neighborhood is $400-500k. Decent area is $500-850k. I swear i dont know how ppl do it out there.
I moved to Texas because of housing costs and its still not that much to be honest. It gets you a decent house in a decent area with a decent car and a few bucks over. Its not what i would call a lot of money.
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:31 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcalaker
Im from California where an old house in a crappy neighborhood is $400-500k. Decent area is $500-850k. I swear i dont know how ppl do it out there.
I moved to Texas because of housing costs and its still not that much to be honest. It gets you a decent house in a decent area with a decent car and a few bucks over. Its not what i would call a lot of money.
Ya, it's crazy out here. My parent bought their house 30 years ago for $30,000. Now it's worth....ready for this???? Over $600. It's not necessarily the house, it's the property. Just not alot of it here in SoCal.
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:37 PM   #70
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Budweiser and all A-B products are the only American Owned Beer company...Drink that and help the Economy...

My RC driving is so bad I might outsorce that...
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:47 PM   #71
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Just because Bud is all American owned doesnt mean they dont buy alot of the materials they use from outside of the U.S. Plus if you drink Bud you might as well drink piss water and save yourself some money. Miller is no longer owned by an American co. this is true, but SAB Miller is employing American workers. And also buys its materials (cans, bottles etc.) from the U.S. Unlike alot of American owned companies that manufacture their products outside of the U.S. and import them back in. I may be a little bias about the beer I drink, being from Milwaukee and employed at Miller. lol
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Old 02-03-2006, 07:59 PM   #72
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I think that the import/domestic line is too blurry to even make judgement on what's what. Most Honda's in this country were made by Americans in this country. Ford "imports" from their factories in Canada and Mexico. Ford also owns the controlling stock in Volvo, Range Rover, Mazda, and Kia??. So are these cars domestic? Chrysler (domestic?) is owned by Dahmler Benz. So who is the domestic company and who is an import? Ford's money still comes back to the states but Honda provides jobs for Americans. Buy a Ford and support Corporate America. Buy a Honda and support the working class. Sorry, just thought I'd ramble a little.
BTW, I understand that the aftermarket American company that produced the top deck is sending a new one to the guy who started this whole thread. The foreign company that produced the car still hasn't admitted there is a problem. Who's work ethics are we challenging?
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Old 02-04-2006, 05:38 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcalaker
Im from California where an old house in a crappy neighborhood is $400-500k. Decent area is $500-850k. I swear i dont know how ppl do it out there.
I moved to Texas because of housing costs and its still not that much to be honest. It gets you a decent house in a decent area with a decent car and a few bucks over. Its not what i would call a lot of money.
A $200K house here will get you a 3000SQFT three story brick house in a very nice neighborhood,so see $30 an hr here is worth a lot more than the rest of the country,I'm so naive to think that it's a rich lifestyle but it's very comfortable,I can drive a new Bmw and live in a $200Khouse and still have plenty of money left over for things like RC racing and saving some for retirement also.
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:21 AM   #74
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Chaps, it's not what you do, it is the question of if you add any value for the customer. Can you make a Harley Davidson?, no. Paying the guys at Harley to make a bike means they add value to the raw marterial, and you pay them to do that. Furthermore, because Harley are the only people in the world who make a real Harley, you can earn money from overseas too, for adding the value.

The salesman argument is bunk! The salesman is adding no value whatsoever. You can buy your Harley on the Internet, from a shop, from a friend or from Harley. Harley can sell spares over the 'Net, and a mechanic (who adds value because he has skills (adds value) you don't have) trained by Harley can service the bike.

If you think about USA as your house, it's like Dad makes Harleys and sells them to Mum. If the family can breed cattle, and plant food, and collect rainwater, then they can live on the fact that their 'money' just goes around the house. However, if Dad can sell a Harley to the man down the street, then money comes in from outside the house, expenses stay the same, and the house makes a profit.

Similarly, if you need a new table or chair, and you have to buy it from the man down the street, money has gone out of your house and you can't replace it. Mum can't buy as many Harleys from Dad, because she had to spend it on the table from the guy down the street.

The problem with Honda and Toyota is not that they don't provide jobs, but that they take their money out of the house altogether, and use it elsewhere. The money you paid for your Toyota was used to build another factory in another country, for example, so the profit is not being used to your benefit, but for someone else's.

If Mum makes burgers, and sells them to little Johnnie, he can only afford to buy them if he works for Mum flipping burgers, or for Dad making Harleys. If Dad can sell Harleys to the man down the street, the the new money comes into the house, and some is spent on burgers - everyone gains. But, the house can't make any money if it sells burgers to everyone in the house who is paid for flipping the burgers!

That is why China and Japan became so rich, because they made things other people wanted, and lots of money came into their house. And it is our money!! I do hope there are no economists on this thread, because this is a truly simplistic explanation. I also hope it gets the point across - you can only make money as a country by making things other people want, and exporting them. Otherwise, you have to borrow money from other people to get the house maintained, and that what has turned the USA into the biggest debtor nation on Earth.

Service economies are fine, as long as there are people earning money from outside the house to pay for the services. Some service economies can export (Switzerland makes a living out of keeping other peoples money, and India is the home of many European call centres) and some have very specialist skills (the New York and London financial centres) that earn money abroad. By and large, service economies are poor economies (Switzerland has a thriving machine tool industry, and India a thriving manufacturing industry) so that is why we should buy products from 'home'.

HTH
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Old 02-04-2006, 07:51 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne
...........
That is why China and Japan became so rich, because they made things other people wanted, and lots of money came into their house. And it is our money!! I do hope there are no economists on this thread, because this is a truly simplistic explanation. I also hope it gets the point across - you can only make money as a country by making things other people want, and exporting them. Otherwise, you have to borrow money from other people to get the house maintained, and that what has turned the USA into the biggest debtor nation on Earth.

HTH
Lets call it demand & supply, equilibrium, and Comparative Advantage. The Japanese is very efficient or very good at making cars and electronics ( toyota, honda, sony, panasonic, toshiba, etc). The chinese is very efficient or very good at making cheap things become even cheaper. They even copy expensive things to become affordable for everyone on earth as long as they have money. The American is very efficient or very good at in building aeroplanes ( boeing ), computers & softwares ( dell, microsoft, hp, ibm, adobe ), managing financial & banking service ( visa, american express, merryl lynch, jp morgan chase manhattan, citibank, arthur andersen, etc ). managing hospitality services ( Hilton, Hyatt, JW Marriott, Ritz Carlton ). So in conclusion, "its NOT our money!! " issue you moron.
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