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Old 01-21-2006, 02:00 AM   #16
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Like aaron said....the battery will make or break you in stock racing. He with the best packs will spank you everywhere on the track.....A motor is only as fast as the power being put into it.....

A good battery has super low IR and really high voltage. IR#'s I really don't know much about...but as for voltage, the higher the better, 1.18,1.19,1.12 if you can get some......Basically, 1.18+ is where you're shooting for.

Also take into account, you're running on bushings, and therefore alignment and freeing up the action is ESSENTIAL to a fast motor. I am a stock motor junkie.....I actually take the time to pop the bushings out of the can and endbell, ream them, sand them, then polish them inside and out....along with the shafts...then pop them back into their spots and aligh them to the shaft, not eachother....The more you can mimic a bearing the better.....

I dont know how to align the hoods, so I dont. I just stick a drill bit through the whole hood and re-tighten.

But, I also have been pretty lucky with handout motor proformance straight out of the box....just a few tweaks and Im on the track......but nothing can or will beat a fast driver with fast batteries....
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Old 01-21-2006, 07:49 AM   #17
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the best batteries are not needed to win races(to the best of the best drivers that can run consistent laptimes it will only help)...decent ones; YES, but not the best

aligning the brush hoods is one of the biggest improvements you can make to a motor for performance if its even the slightest out of alignment
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Old 01-21-2006, 10:34 AM   #18
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the drill hole works good too. i forgot to mention that. dont go by amp draw on no load. go by track performance. no load amp dram means nothing. only real way of testing is on the track. another thing i found that worked good for truck was a X cut on the brushes.
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Old 01-21-2006, 12:52 PM   #19
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The theory is that brushes make the majority of their power through the edges of the of the brush.....so...by removing the center of the brush by drilling it out, you force all the power to be made around the edges of the brush face. Also, by removing the center of the brush, you can divert a little bit of heat from the core of the brush....I dont know how much or if it works....but thats the theory.
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Old 01-21-2006, 09:06 PM   #20
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Guys, I think I am doing something wrong. I blew up both motors I tuned today But have no idea why it happened. I had 2 team drivers look at them and they didn't know why either as they were geared in the ball park.

1st motor: PK2K geared at 19/86 in MF2. All I did to this motor was drill the brushes, polish the bushings and com posts. Didn't even mess with timing. I have been running this gearing in this motor for 3 months with no problems. Withing less than 1/2 a pack the motor became REALLY HOT, loosing power...i thought my battery was dead, but it was the motor. The mesh was just fine, and no binding anywhere in my truck. Pulled it apart and the comm was a burnt rainbow color. Tried to cut it but clearly one of the panels had lifted. By the time I had it all cut down the motor was crap. It now pull 2.8-3.3 amps and sounds really crappy. Thinkl an new arm would work? Or the heat ruined the magnets too? COM "look" perfect, but it sure does not run that way.

2nd motor: Rev Monster stock at 18/86 in MF2: 1st run died in half a lap, pulled it off and noticed some smoke, it was really hot after just 3 practice laps and half a race lap. Appeared a brush hung...so I put new in. Ran 2 qualifiers just fine, then in the main I was TQ and the truck didn't want to move at all on the start, I got @$$ packed, then it started, but noticably off pace. I still worked my way back to the lead at about 70% powr, then it progressivly got slower and slower until it would npot run, a marshal would drop the truck then it would go half a lap really slow, then I finally pulled it. The motor was HOT...I mean murn your find in less than a second hot!!! Again, mesh was fine and drivetrain free. Noticed allot of buildup on the com where the brushes contact. Where is this comming from? Cut the comm and it seemed to run ok, but just during breakin I can see the build up forming on the comm again...WTF? No Idea where it is coming from...the motor is super clean, I did my tuning on it, moved really free, new spring\brushes, no arching. Man I just am lost...This thing was a rocket out there too, only got one run in and took TQ with it. I hope I can get it going again without the build up. THis cost me two races, I won't run it again because of this unless you can help me find the problem.

The ONLY common factor was the drilling of the brushes. Brushes were not from the same store or batch. I ran MOD all day as well and had no problems, so I am sure the truck is not the problem. But man, 2 motors in 4 runs sucks.

Oh, I also bough a new battery a ID 2800 with 1.209 and 1.6IR, charges up nice, but now that I think about it, I never got to run it as both times the Monster puked was with this new battery...maybe too much votlage? Discharge is 7.04V

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Old 01-22-2006, 12:45 PM   #21
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i bet you need to gear down with that new pack. try going down 2 teeth with the monster. the monster is not a good truck motor to begin with
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:29 PM   #22
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how deep are you drilling your brushes? I only drilled about 1/4 - 1/3 in on the brush, thats it.

What was the spring combination you were running and did you measure it at all with a fiddlestick or similar device?

Did you make sure you had free movement in your brush hoods and none of them are tweaked?


As for the your gearing in general, exactly how are you gearing your motors? By that I mean do you gear your motor to top out at the end of the longest straight (within reason) and then go from there with slight changes?

Big Jim told me of this method and I was skeptical at first, but when I tried it in touring on our 100ft long straight, I got much better performance, and I actually had alot of power in the tight sections of the track which was different than I was expecting.

I would say check your spring tension as well as how you are doing your gearing.

A person I would recommend you contact is EddieO From Team Brood racing and see if he can give you some advise as well. Next to Big Jim, he would be the ultimate authority I would trust.
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Old 01-22-2006, 08:43 PM   #23
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I drilled the [email protected] (the won that totaly fired) about 3/4.

The first set of brushes for the monster was drilled 1/2, the second set was some new 767s drilled all the way through.

Hard to tell on only a 80 foot straightr whether it is peaking or not, but I did try your reasoning as another racer told me the same thing. I seen a chart stating a 16/86 for a monster stock in the MF2.

But this does not explain the instant build up on the comm during the motor run on my turbo 35...within 100 seconds there was build up on the comm. This was after a fresh cut.

And now, I have no spring testing thing, but they were only 3 races old. I think purple pos\green neg on P2K2 and red\red on the monster.
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Old 01-22-2006, 10:00 PM   #24
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I would definitely invest in the spring thing or fiddlestick. Just because the spring is red or purple isn't necessarily the tension you are getting.

Never seen anyone drill all the way through and never did it myself so I couldn't comment on that.

As for comm buildup, exactly how much are we talking? can you take a pic?
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Old 01-22-2006, 10:20 PM   #25
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It was weid, I cut the com already, but after that run in the Main were it puked, where the brushed made contact was all white and the rest was a "light" orange color...not like the copper, but a yellow\oragish color, maybe from overheating. A local racer commented on the build up, al though it was a white color with black streaks\lines.
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Old 01-22-2006, 10:38 PM   #26
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your new batteries combined with the holes in the brush, you need to gear down....3800s have alot more power, more power more heat, i will let eddieo know about this thread tommarow, he is a motor guru.....

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Old 01-23-2006, 11:32 AM   #27
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Oh my......

Aaron, please list all the national events you have won.....with just batteries and the lucky motor.....maybe in offroad someone can get away with it.....certainly never in onroad.

While on the local level, batteries can be the difference between 1st and 2nd, even with a not so great motor....on the national level, all the guys are running cream of the crop packs......a properly built and tuned motor will help put you in the winners circle...

I don't polish or ream bushings anymore.....doesn't do enough in my opinion to make a difference.

The keys are proper hood alignment, proper spring tension, and full break in......screw up on one of these and your motor will suffer....

However, there is no making a bad motor good......the best you can accomplish with ANY motor is making it reach its full potential......but, you can't overcome poor windings, retarded comm timing, or incorrect balancing with any form of tuning....

Later EddieO
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:50 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Waldron
I have a P2K2 and batteries that will kill any stock motor/battery combination you could ever buy off the shelf, and that's all there is to it.
Gotta love those factory drivers running stock.....
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:57 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Oh my......

Aaron, please list all the national events you have won.....
You first Eddie , How many nationals have "YOU" won ?

I

However, there is no making a bad motor good......
I just buy more than one "hand-out" & hope I get lucky ....

Later EddieO

Eddie , I`v sat next to the guy tuning & cuting these handout`s at nats before...

He would put them on the dyno & guess what ?

Just about everyones motor was with in a couple percent of each other`s power output ..


This fact after checking almost 200 motor`s...(Paradox)

Aaron`s advise is correct and factual...
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:59 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Oh my......

The keys are proper hood alignment, proper spring tension, and full break in......screw up on one of these and your motor will suffer....

Later EddieO
Thanks,
So what are "proper" spring tensions? And I am not sure on a "full" break in. I have had SO MANY different opinions on this I am lost. I just know after 300 seconds by brushed still have the grooves and I can't really tell where the comm is wearing on the brush.
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