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4wd stadium trucks!

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Old 03-16-2017, 06:18 PM
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The big disadvantage of promoting 2.8" dia wheels is that they're not used in other classes of racing and therefore there are few race tire tread patterns (if any) or compounds available for them.
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:18 PM
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I am thinking about it now. The stadium truck rules do not allow a buggy style wing....


so this is a 1/10 4wd truggy.
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Old 03-16-2017, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinatfms View Post
If its an advantage then use it....EVERYONE can use them.
The problem with allowing all possible advantageous technologies to be used is eventually all racing classes will be 1:8-scale buggies (for off-road) and 1:8-scale GT cars (for on-road). If you don't enforce differentiation between various classes, the laws of physics will eventually result in the designs converging on a single hyper-optimized, and extremely boring, ideal.

Originally Posted by Rodarbal View Post
The big disadvantage of promoting 2.8" dia wheels is that they're not used in other classes of racing and therefore there are few race tire tread patterns (if any) or compounds available for them.
I'm not saying 2.8" would be THE new standard. There is no reason there couldn't be a range of permissible wheel diameters -- because there *already is* a range of permissible wheel diameters. Currently ROAR regulations cap the maximum wheel diameter for stadium trucks at 2.6", but we all know the normal size is 2.2". So if the acceptable range is 2.2" - 2.6", why not make it 2.2" - 2.8" to include all wheel sizes currently used on vehicles described as "stadium trucks"? It's the outer diameter of the *tires* that is the main concern regarding suspension performance and gearing, so as long as the outer diameter of the tires is roughly the same, the drivers can be left to contemplate the performance tradeoffs of running larger wheels with lower-profile tires vs. smaller wheels with higher-profile tires.

FYI, here are the 2.8" stadium truck tires I found:

JConcepts: Chopper, Subculture, G-Loc
Pro-Line: Dirt Hawg, Road Rage
Duratrax: Bandito, Picket, Pistol, Six Pack, Lockup

I suppose you could argue that these aren't "race tires", but try not to get too hung-up on that. Remember there didn't used to be ANY race tires, and yet people still raced. Truly it was a triumph of the human spirit.
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
...So if the acceptable range is 2.2" - 2.6", why not make it 2.2" - 2.8" to include all wheel sizes currently used on vehicles described as "stadium trucks"?
Valid statement.

Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
I suppose you could argue that these aren't "race tires", but try not to get too hung-up on that. Remember there didn't used to be ANY race tires, and yet people still raced. Truly it was a triumph of the human spirit.
LOL... like Jay Halsey's 1985 RC10 that had Tamiya Holiday Buggy tires. Um, well for this 4wd ST or 1/10 Truggy class I'd prefer to run modern compounds that work well with the surfaces I'm racing on. I'll save the no-choice-of-good-compound tires for our spec classes.
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kevinatfms View Post
I havent and dont think i will.

Im also kind of baffled why ROAR doesnt allow the SCT wheel/tire package in 4wd stadium truck. If they want to start this class they need to lax the rules up a bit in that respect. I would still not allow 1/8 scale buggy wheels or something like that, but a 2.2/3.0 wheel should be allowable if it keeps the truck under the 13" width requirement.

I dont see this class taking off. I built the truck to troll people on practice days and just have fun tearing the track up. If they did ever try to run the class i would petition to have the 2.2/3.0 wheels allowed.
4wd stadium truck rules have been around long before short course became a class and since so few ever race them they're not going to take the time to amend the rules. But I agree, SC wheels and tires should be allowed.

Originally Posted by billdelong View Post
Thanks for the thoughts, I totally understand where you're coming from, especially when the chassis you've chosen was designed specifically for 2.2/3.0 wheels, but I can speak of first hand experience when our club expanded the 13.5T Super Stock 4WD Buggy class and I was doing lots of experimenting to get the best possible performance out of my stock racer. One of the things I found was that running lighter 2WD front wheels on the front of my 4WD car provided significantly less rotating mass which gave me an advantage and some folks weren't happy with my results. That's when I reached out to ROAR to get clarification on the rules and they confirmed what I was doing was 100% legal.

In contrast, I can see how SC wheels are lighter, and have less foam thickness which can be advantageous on high traction surfaces so I don't think it would be realistic to run both wheel types in the same ST class without folks throwing a conniption. Some folks blew a gasket when I ran 2WD wheels on a 4WD car, I can't begin to imagine the out-lash of SC vs ST wheels, ha!

FWIW,

I once owned a Hyper 10SC conversion to Buggy and yes, it was extremely competitive too



I wouldn't hesitate running SC wheels on my 10TT if the rules allowed it
On your 4wd buggy you can actually run front wheels and tires all around if you want. Or rear wheels and tires all around, totally legal. The only time setting up a buggy like this would cause you issues is if you attended a race with handout tires/wheels.

Originally Posted by kevinatfms View Post
Then they need to amend the rules to allow it. The Hyper TT would still have competition from the Stampede, Bullet Flux, Vaterra Halix let alone plenty of other monster truck based vehicles that can be converted. It would be a nice open class limited by motor and battery limits.

2s, 540 or 550 motor, 4 pole
2.2 outer bead wheel required, other bead is open
truck body - cab forward or regular
wing - body attached or buggy style
13" wide max


sounds easy enough...
I'm assuming you mean 4 pole 540, 2 pole 550 - same as 4x4 SC?

Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
Well, one of the big reasons ROAR doesn't allow SCT wheels on stadium trucks is because the tires have a larger diameter. That not only increases the distance traveled per wheel rotation and therefore makes it easier to gear for high speed, it also changes the suspension's response to small bumps -- larger tires roll more smoothly over small bumps, a fact that has (rather irritatingly) driven the adoption of "29 inch" wheels for mountain bikes in the past decade or so, whereas "26 inch" has been the standard for far longer. (the sizes are in quotes because neither size is actually accurate.) Because of this, the selection of mountain bike tires has suffered greatly, because now manufacturers have to make the same tires in multiple sizes whereas before they only had to make one size, so to compensate they make fewer tread designs -- but I digress.

However, the 2.8" wheels used by Traxxas on their stadium trucks are fitted with low-profile tires, offered by Pro-Line and Duratrax in addition to Traxxas itself, and those low-profile tires have the same diameter as normal stadium-truck tires. The larger wheels offer enough clearance for the 4Pede's large steering knuckles while the tires conform to ROAR specs, so it should be a lot easier to petition for that exception to the ROAR rules vs. petitioning to allow SCT wheels and tires on stadium trucks.
The SC tires aren't really that much bigger, and there's no rule stating that a stadium truck tire cannot be as large as a SC tire, it's just that no one makes them that big. Also SC tires are too narrow to fit into stadium truck rules, but not by much. Plus SC wheels don't fit the rules either which is another problem. I believe allowing both would be fine, especially if you're trying to start up a class, why turn people away? Once the class is big enough, everyone will have switched to whatever wheel/tire combo is best anyway.


Originally Posted by Rodarbal View Post
The big disadvantage of promoting 2.8" dia wheels is that they're not used in other classes of racing and therefore there are few race tire tread patterns (if any) or compounds available for them.
Totally agree.
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Old 03-17-2017, 04:18 AM
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I think the whole having gone to a 2.8" "ST" tire is because of Traxxas diluting the term Stadium Truck. When they had the Blue Eagle and the SRT they ran 2.2"

I think it went to 2.8 to blur the line between the "monster trucks" and ST, thats the way I see it.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:31 AM
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Yes, and I'd add to that the fact that you can have a beefier kingpin assembly with the larger rims w/o better materials. The mfr's could, if they wanted, beef up the front w/o needing more space. On my own account, they did NOT do me any favors by moving the weight down into an aluminum chassis.

I'd have much preferred beefier or denser mounts, arms, hubs and spindles to take up that weight - TC has an even lower COG and they still traction roll...no need to have done that for buggies & trucks. I think it's a false "benefit" pushed out because they didn't want a longer re-tooling phase for their new stuff.

The 2.2 is my favorite: it's what I know and it looks great, but I might be stodgy...larger wheels mean, to me, "monster" or "bash."

I like monster trucks and bashing, but the "cool, tuff & bichin" look of an open wheeled stadium sailing through traffic requires 2.2's with poofy tires.

Just sayin....
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:59 AM
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+1 its been 2.2 ST for years, don't call it 4wd ST and run a non 2.2 tire? How is this different that calling it what it would become on 2.8 - 1/10 4wd Truggy. And before you know it people will just be gettting short wheelbase 1:8 buggies (EB4, MBX4 etc.) and throwing 2.8 tires on it, or a MT410 with 2.8" tires.

And yes the "Squirely-ness" of the 2.2 tire, is also what led to the class not only being fun but a little more of a challenge to drive.

1/10 2wd buggy and 4wd buggy run the same size and type of tire - just sayin' In the 80's we ran 1.6 and 1.9 tires in 2wd buggy and 4wd buggy.
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Old 03-17-2017, 01:11 PM
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I liked those 1.6/9's. Without special inserts (or any at all) I had to work more rebound into my driving style. Of course, the fat tires helped some and looked great
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Old 03-17-2017, 01:30 PM
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14 spec Xb4.
Rear stub axles mounted on front cvds.
Exotek 7.5mm wide hex in front.
t4.1 12mm hex wheels on all 4 corners.
Rear end is using approximately 14mm in hex width (2x~7mm plastic hex's; ordering 15 or 18mm hot racing hub extenders today.)

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Old 03-19-2017, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by aspiringracer View Post
14 spec Xb4.
Rear stub axles mounted on front cvds.
Exotek 7.5mm wide hex in front.
t4.1 12mm hex wheels on all 4 corners.
Rear end is using approximately 14mm in hex width (2x~7mm plastic hex's; ordering 15 or 18mm hot racing hub extenders today.)

Looks good but it would better to get the additional width in the arms if possible.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Matthew_Armeni View Post
Looks good but it would better to get the additional width in the arms if possible.
Most certainly; I have successfully transplanted xt2 rear arms/hubs/outer hingepins/driveshafts, the problem lies within the front drive shafts needing to be longer. I have yet to measure the outer Xt2 hinge pin on the front arms but I believe the Xb4 hubs will fit; there are a number of driveshafts from the xb4 line-up that could possibly fit the bill however they bounce in the diff outdrives due to their ball-end being 6mm (as they are center driveshafts vs front or rear they endure less stress; meaning they can use a smaller diameter end to reduce rotating mass/centrifugal force from the driveline) opposed to the 6.8mm ball-ends of standard xb4 front or rear drive shafts. Possible remedy is using center outdrives but their compatibility in front or rear application is unknown by me.


On the other side of things; I think I might trade an xb4 for another losi 22-4 and give my shot at that. I just test fit my t4.1 wheels on it and as Tsair has stated it really just needs rear axles in front. I'm thinking possibly a rear end transplant from the 22sct series of trucks though I haven't ruled out just running some less offset front wheels to even the track width up. T4.1 offset hex wheels from DE put front track width at 12 inches, rear track width is at 11.2 inches or so.

Edit; further research shows the 22 sct 2.0 using 88mm driveshafts.. Hello new project.

Last edited by aspiringracer; 03-19-2017 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by harry697 View Post
The hyper 10tt was an awesome class..........back when we had a class for them. Would love to see it make a comeback!
I just got one free the other day Going to bring it back to life soon.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Matthew_Armeni View Post
Looks good but it would better to get the additional width in the arms if possible.
I guess that is where the 3D priniting comes in handy!
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 1/8 IC Fan View Post
+1 its been 2.2 ST for years, don't call it 4wd ST and run a non 2.2 tire? How is this different that calling it what it would become on 2.8 - 1/10 4wd Truggy. And before you know it people will just be gettting short wheelbase 1:8 buggies (EB4, MBX4 etc.) and throwing 2.8 tires on it, or a MT410 with 2.8" tires.

And yes the "Squirely-ness" of the 2.2 tire, is also what led to the class not only being fun but a little more of a challenge to drive.

1/10 2wd buggy and 4wd buggy run the same size and type of tire - just sayin' In the 80's we ran 1.6 and 1.9 tires in 2wd buggy and 4wd buggy.
Stadium trucks under the ROAR rules do not allow a body separate rear wing. So that in itself lends to the idea that the 4wd stadium truck/ truggy class has a grey area in the rules. I assume you want to ban them also? Then kiss the Hyper 10TT goodbye...and that is practically the whole class at this point. The ROAR rules also state a max of 4lbs for both 4wd and 2wd stadium truck. id bet 99% of the Hyper 10TT trucks are more than 4lbs.

The ROAR rules need to be amended for 4wd stadium truck/truggy. They just dont meet any of the 4wd trucks today.

Allow SCT wheels/tires, 2.2's and 2.8's. Nothing more wheel/tire wise. This allows trucks like the Traxxas Stampede, HPI Bullet ST Flux, Helion Dominus TR, Vaterra Halix to compete in the same class as the Hyper 10TT. Keep the width at 13", allow a chassis mounted rear wing, allow double shocks(HPI has 8 stock) and keep the motor limits at 540 4 pole or 550 2 pole. Max weight should be under 5lbs to keep 1/8 buggy and SCT conversions out of the mix.(my full weight Stampede truggy weighs right at 5.0lbs with a 5000mah 2s hardcase)
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