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Tekno RC EB410 Thread

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Old 01-17-2019, 05:13 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Tekno RC EB410 Thread
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been a member for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: tobamiester
Welcome to the EB410 Wiki page.

Basic Stats/Features:
  • Shaft drive (tapered AL for light weight and straightness)
  • Gear differentials (all 3)
  • Low Angle CVAs (with captured pins so no ejecting them!)
  • Durable stub axles with 12mm hexes and optional offset adjustments
  • Reverse bellcrank steering system
  • Quick access bulkheads (for easy diff maintenance and tuning)
  • Spllt center diff holder (for easy diff maintenance and tuning)
  • 8th scale style motor mount (for easy mesh adjustment)
  • 13mm big bore shocks
  • 3.5mm shock shafts
  • Droop screws

Videos
Servo Horns
Tekno included a plastic servo horn but also offers an aluminum one. This is highly recommended. Here's a list of servo horns that have been found to work:
Gearing:
Works out of the box for mod or 13.5.
  • Preference for Associated factory team pinions
  • Start mod gearing around 21t pinion
  • Start 13.5 gearing around 29t pinion with the stock spur (81tooth). If using a Tekin Spec R 13.5, start with a 24t pinion for medium sized indoor tracks.
  • Internal Gear Ratio: 2.5:1
  • For comparison:
  • B64 is 2.47:1
  • 22-4 is 2.4:1
  • YZ4 is 2.6:1

Wheels
  • B6/22/rb6 wheels direct fit
  • 22-4/XB4 front wheels direct fit
  • B64 front wheels will fit, but you need the +1 hexes (can use #TKR1654X, which is a +1mm hex)
  • 22 2wd front wheels will also fit, possibly a good option for carpet.

Setup Sheets and other documentation
Setup sheets for all Tekno RC vehicles can be found here. Please be sure to try our recommended setup. It works very well on most tracks.
Piston Drills:
Some of our setups recommend using pistons that are enlarged. For instance 4x1.9 or 3x2.0. To drill the pistons we recommend the following:
Aftermarket Upgrades:
Warranty Policy:
Tekno RC is the only company in the industry that will give 50% off of parts if returned to them using the General Warranty return policy found on their website. The parts can be lightly used or completely abused, as long as the part is still being produced it's covered!


Build Tips:
  • When fastening the steering posts with a 5.5mm socket wrench, you can back space the socket with some nuts to help drive the post into the bulk head

  • Place an alcohol swab over metal threads and drive screws through the swab to clean both sides of threads before applying thread lock

  • Use a metallic marker to indicate what fluids you have filled in your diffs for easy identification

  • Apply thin layer of grease on crown gears to help hold gaskets in place for easy hole alignment

  • Bags F and H have 2 different size set screws, be sure to use the smaller 3x3mm screws for the hexes or you may run into problems installing wheels over the hex if you use the longer 3x4mm screws
  • To make is easier to slip the o-rings on the shock cap bleeder screws, apply a drop of shock oil and slip them over a 1.5mm hex bit, then line up the bit with the screw and transfer the o-ring over using fingernails or needle nose pliers
  • pinch+rotate shock caps in 17mm hex wrench to improve roundness
    More shock build tips here
  • Use a 3.05mm drill bit or 3.05mm Kyosho arm reamer, 1/8" drill bits are not recommended because they are 3.17mm in diameter and tend to introduce too much slop, the pins are roughly 2.97mm in diameter
  • Replace the stock 3x14mm screws (TKR1405) with 3x20mm screws (TKR1409) in step H-10 in the manual in order to increase durability to the bulkhead.

  • When installing the front and rear differentials into the bulkheads be careful when tightening the 3x8mm screws of the cover that holds the diff in place. Bottom out the screws first (use a hand driver and make it hand tight) then check the diff to make sure it rotates smooth. If it binds up, start by backing out each screw 1/8-1/4 of a turn until the both front and rear diffs move freely. The plastic threads will keep the screws in place so don't worry if you think the screws are not secure.
  • When installing the steering hub kingpins (TKR6596), drive each one in hand tight only. Then check the movement of the steering hub. If it binds up, back out the kingpin screws by 1/8-1/4 of a turn until it moves freely. Then install the set screws (TKR1601) to hold it in place. Only drive the set screw in until you make contact with the kingpin. Do not force it.
  • If using the low profile servo mount, be sure to use smaller OD (outter diameter) washers to avoid rubbing on the center drive shaft. Protek ball stud washers are a good example of the acceptable diameter. You can chose to not run washers though it is recommended to use them as it makes for a more secure mount.

  • Ball Cup Alternative from AE: ASC91453. These are used as a harder composite option if you are not happy with the softer stock plastics. Note that these are approximately 2-3mm shorter and require compensation when building your kit to the manual specs to achieve proper camber/toe settings


  • Wheel Nut Alternative: Yokomo 4mm Thin Aluminum Serrated Flanged Nut

    https://www.amainhobbies.com/yokomo-...-n4flt/p541494


  • Moving Rear Shocks to the Front of the A-arm

    This is the break down of what's required by one of the Eb410 FB users.

    Joey A.

    So since there has been some people wondering about running the shocks in the front of the arm I though I would try explaining everything that I did to get them to work and why. My goal was to run as much stock stuff as possible with the least amount of modifications.

    -Arms- need to be flipped and 1mm shaved off the back (spacing the arm farther back) running it this way the car is still a mm shorter then stock but more material could be removed for more adjustability but I have found no need to make the car longer.

    -Inner ball stud- there are 2 ways of mounting, the first can be used with the stock plastic tower. All you need to do is use a 10mm ball stud instead of the lower shock mount screw and a little clearance from the shock tower and diff case. Using this method will work but the ball stud is moved lower and farther in then the stock locations which requires different pivot locations to try and correct roll centers. The other way (preferred) using the option carbon tower drill a hole higher and farther out if done properly you will be able to get the ball stud location in the correct hight(0mm) and between the two stock locations.

    -Shocks- only 2 changes from stock you will need to space the top shock mount 2mm out. You will also need to run around 1.5-2mm less droop depending on your setup.

    -Sway bar- this is the hardest part of the swap. This can be done a million ways I chose to print a mount in the stock ball stud location which allowed me to use the stock swaybars and arm mounting position. You can also bend your own bar and use the stock mounts on the back. You will have to drill your arms on the other side and closer to the pivot for this to work (remember you will need a thinner bar the closer you mount the lower pickup on the arm to get the same feeling as stock).

    -Other- you will need to remove the drop screws on the rear arm. Depending on rear rims,hubs,ballcups and setup you might need to clearance the outer ball cup so it doesnít rub on the wheel.

    -Why- the benefits of running the shocks in the front are the ability to run a softer rear shock package without giving up corner speed and pack. The car will land without chassis slapping or packing out as easy allowing you to drive the car harder and it corners flatter and rotates faster without losing rear grip.

    Sorry for the shity grammar,
    TJR

    Sway bar mount for forward mounted shocks: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tekno-EB410...4AAOSwYNxahFkq

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Old 10-26-2018, 06:02 AM
  #4786  
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Anyone remember the original losi 22 with the battery down the middle and the 4 gear transmission? The issue with it was rear traction. Most guys added weight to the back of the car on the bulkhead (behind the rear axle.) This helped the issue but it slowed rotation, and the rear could still be loose. Many racers were modding the side rails to put in the battery sideways and move the weight back. Losi 22 2.0 came out and they redesigned some of the geometry and improved some of the parts, but similar issues remained. Then Losi 22 3.0 came out and the battery went in sideways, the transmission went to 3 gear, and the motor was moved back 12mm. The design evolved over time, but would anyone take a 2.0 over a 3.0 on any surface? Cars evolve over time, but physics doesn’t change. There is a reason the national champion 13.5 has the shocks on the front, and virtually all other brands: are, X-ray, yokomo, etc do the same.

It is an easy mod especially if you haven’t already bought the cf rear tower. It will cost you about $30 and if you don’t like it, you keep the tower and it will end up costing you $10 for the sway bar mount (dirt cheap in rc.) Show me another car where you can make this type of change for $10 net cost? (Changing a part of the original design).
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Last edited by billjacobs; 10-26-2018 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 10-26-2018, 06:13 AM
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I have been in RC since 1991...I have seen these toy cars evolve. I am not questioning the fact that doing it helps or not, my question was why do you think they didn't include it in their original design. We have had the option of switching the shocks to the front of the tower on cars for years now, well before they released the EB410.
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Old 10-26-2018, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jonski View Post
I have been in RC since 1991...I have seen these toy cars evolve. I am not questioning the fact that doing it helps or not, my question was why do you think they didn't include it in their original design. We have had the option of switching the shocks to the front of the tower on cars for years now, well before they released the EB410.
I don't have any insider information, but I would be willing to bet that the 5+ years of development of the car was on tracks with low to medium traction conditions. High traction carpet and turf tracks hadn't hit the US market yet so they designed the platform based on what was the most popular track condition at the time.
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Old 10-26-2018, 06:29 AM
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Possible reasons why they didn’t include the mod in the kit:
1) they wanted a car that was easier to drive out of the box (pushed more off power and had more grip on power), and suited for low grip tracks
2) flipping the arms causes other changes which means you had to redesign the arm sweep, and come up with a more elegant rear sway bar solution (the solution we have is ok, but it looks like a mod,)
3) team drivers thought the prototype was fine and worked well
4) they simply didn’t think of it
5) they released the carbon tower with the camber holes 5/2018, close to a year after the original design was announced

Don’t be surprised if the eb410.2 includes the option. I am sure it will be well integrated into the design, and not need different arms or bolt on parts.




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Old 10-26-2018, 06:56 AM
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With the motor and battery already so far forward compared to other buggies, I'm sure part of the decision was made to keep the car close to 50-50 for the front-rear bias. They would have been able to see the weight distribution in the CAD models, so once they hit their design target they didn't feel the need to add forward shocks as an option out of the gate since their bias was already much further forward than every other buggy on the market.
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Old 10-26-2018, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Krio View Post
With the motor and battery already so far forward compared to other buggies, I'm sure part of the decision was made to keep the car close to 50-50 for the front-rear bias. They would have been able to see the weight distribution in the CAD models, so once they hit their design target they didn't feel the need to add forward shocks as an option out of the gate since their bias was already much further forward than every other buggy on the market.
+1 .

We as racers usually find things in the field that may have not been thought up of in the design or seen as needed at the time. It happens. What is nice though is companies who then take those ideas and look at them to see what benefits they offer and incorporate them into later releases.
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Old 10-26-2018, 09:43 AM
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I'll have to find my old post but I've mentioned this before, I believe the change that most people are feeling when they do the shock forward mod is the shorter wheelbase along with the increased dogbone angle that comes with it. We've shaved the front of the arms and the front of our hubs to shorten the wheelbase up to 5mm and saw all the same benefits people speak of when they do the shock mod.
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Old 10-26-2018, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by billdelong View Post
I don't have any insider information, but I would be willing to bet that the 5+ years of development of the car was on tracks with low to medium traction conditions. High traction carpet and turf tracks hadn't hit the US market yet so they designed the platform based on what was the most popular track condition at the time.
I would think the same on that.

Originally Posted by Matthew_Armeni View Post
I'll have to find my old post but I've mentioned this before, I believe the change that most people are feeling when they do the shock forward mod is the shorter wheelbase along with the increased dogbone angle that comes with it. We've shaved the front of the arms and the front of our hubs to shorten the wheelbase up to 5mm and saw all the same benefits people speak of when they do the shock mod.
Better rotation and an increase in on power steering would be my guess.
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Old 10-26-2018, 11:57 AM
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So I started my build. I got as far as page 5 when I ran across a quality control issue. I was assembling the steering rack. I actually bought the Trinity parts for this, the rack and bell crank, and at first, I thought that the holes were drilled/threaded incorrectly in the hop-up part, because I could not get the ball stud to thread into the hole. Then I tried a few regular 3mm screws which were also in Bag C, and behold, no issue. I tried both of the rear holes, and this ball stud would not go. Then I thought, well, maybe it's left handed threads. Nope.

I looked closely under a 10x microscope I use for SMD electronics. The "threads" are not helical. My ball stud is "ribbed" not threaded. I guess they turn these and the tool didn't move across the piece when it was cutting, so it just cut straight. I just got back from my local hobby shop before rush hour begins. Stymied by a defective part on page 5. Ugh. So I guess I'm buying a part to replace a new part in my kit or wait 2 weeks to have Tekno send me a replacement. I guess I'll just have to steal a ball stud off another one of my cars for now. What a pain.

Anyone else have this experience?
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Old 10-26-2018, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
Donít be surprised if the eb410.2 includes the option.
Will that be before or after the sct410.4? Tekno seems more interested in pushing a 4wd Stadium truck that does not seem to have a class, then supporting current racers.
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Old 10-26-2018, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sea1swk View Post
Will that be before or after the sct410.4? Tekno seems more interested in pushing a 4wd Stadium truck that does not seem to have a class, then supporting current racers.
I only started racing around 2010, but my understanding was that the SCT class was first introduced by the Traxxas Slash sometime around 2009, I believe the 1/10 4WD Truck Class has been around since 1998 according to ROAR Results

I commend TEKNO for expanding their selection of classes. Ironically, the introduction of the ET410 has all but killed the 4WD SCT class at the club in our area. The real test will be tomorrow when the club hosts a ROAR Regional for district 9... I predict more entries for 1/10 4WD Truck than 1/10 4WD SCT, but I could be wrong.... I am going to be entering in both classes anyway ... TEKNO FTW!

***UPDATE
We had 2 entries for 4WD SCT and 5 entries for 4WD Truck which is about what I expected to see happen.

Last edited by billdelong; 10-29-2018 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:15 PM
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Is it normal for the gearing to feel a bit tighter in the rear bulkhead as opposed to the front? That's the case with mine. I come from AE b64 where they had shims to adjust this, but here it looks like no such options exist.

While I am thinking of it, are most people cutting the holes for the body pins in this car, or just going with velcro only? I didn't make holes in my other cars because the clips are a PITA and it makes for a great spot for a tear in the lexan body.
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Old 10-26-2018, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce_R View Post
Is it normal for the gearing to feel a bit tighter in the rear bulkhead as opposed to the front? That's the case with mine. I come from AE b64 where they had shims to adjust this, but here it looks like no such options exist.

While I am thinking of it, are most people cutting the holes for the body pins in this car, or just going with velcro only? I didn't make holes in my other cars because the clips are a PITA and it makes for a great spot for a tear in the lexan body.
For the diffs usually a fresh one could be rough for the first few backs. Usually it breaks in and is fine after that.

I do use velcro only as well. There are plenty of spots to add it for a secure fit. The tekno velcro is actually plenty good for me.
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Old 10-27-2018, 07:57 AM
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13.5 guys...how many if you are running the MIP puck system? Any benefits actually noticed? How has the wear been?

Thanks
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Old 10-27-2018, 09:11 AM
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I run the puck set up in my clay 13.5 and i like it, woke it up a lot, think i'm going to do the composite gears in the diffs to on it. Buggy feels way lighter and accelerates way way faster.

As for the wear. I have a few heats and races, i use bearing oil on my puck set up to help with it not wearing and i have no wear as of yet.
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