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Expanding, ballooning tires...

Expanding, ballooning tires...

Old 02-02-2016, 11:09 AM
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Default Expanding, ballooning tires...

Hi Guys,

I've got two solutions to control tire swell and I hope you find them useful. I'm holding up on other projects to get this out, as it's a prerequisite to a lot of testing. Without tying some of my tires, they simply tear themselves off the rims. I tried several glues and the best was thin CA as it stays flexible enough on the fibers vs. the rock hard set of accelerating it with granules or powder and is easy to apply. Misting with distilled water will accelerate it and leave it a little flexible, too. But, I just usually let it set for 10 minutes while working through the others in the set.



The ties survive curb hits when the tire distorts from the angled impact and folds into the center of the tread, water/mud and sharp chat/gravel. Also, if you're fixing up a set that's already balanced, you won't have to re-balance. This has really increased my willingness to zip back & forth across a lot or the park with speed runs and spool up for longer jumps.

I've got pics on another camera that I'll put up, soon, too; or re-take them, with all the steps shown. This is thoroughly tested with various treads on tires of all sizes except for special racing treads (Ions, BarCodes, etc., but I'll get there) and has doubled/tripled the useful life of them while avoiding expansion blowouts.

The first is tying them with strands of polyester thread in a channel of the the tread pattern on the outside of the tire. Except for finely spun nylon, Nomex or Aramid, "poly" of any kind is the best; whether "spun", "poly wrapped poly" or branded with polyester equivalent names like Dacron. The plain Dual Duty All-Purpose Coats and Clark at Walmart is fine, but the XL or specialty blends can get too thick. The sturdiness will come from a few wraps of the thread rather than from extra tendrils of fiber already incorporated or bonding agents applied.



The plain poly serger thread on the cones at Hobby Lobby, JoAnns and others works great, too, and is the source for these projects. Cotton, "cotton wrapped poly" and embroidery threads (except for real floss) will fail quickly and silk is more expensive, although strong and pliable. But, then, one spool of silk would last a long time...I might try it.

When there's a chevron or interlocking pattern, squeeze the tire to spread the lugs and make it easy to lay the strands.



Also, on some softer treads that are seamed down the center, pick loose or snip the flash from the mold. Or, lay a smaller amount on each side of the interlock.



On treads with lugs down the very middle, it works fine to put a couple strands on either side for good control or to weave it for just a little bit of swell. I don't weave when the turns, right & left, of the lay are really angled because; then, the overall diameter of the tie is significantly larger than the minor diameter of the tire (the base of the lugs) and can loosen in extreme situations.



^^ These are already worn, some, and I'll cinch down the strands rather than just keep them snug (the usual) to alleviate additional wear down the middles.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:31 AM
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Ok, these are from 2 sets of medium tall stadium 2.2's, one with foams and one without. The hollow tire set excels on large gravel, wrinkled parking lots and sand bank washboards; and it's useable because it's tied. This was my first experiment and I used 5 or 6 strands, probably overkill I now know. Also, you'll notice the glue looks a little different than what follows because I used fabric glue at first and had to "fix" after a few runs with CA.



This set has about 15 packs through it, not bad at all. Here it is full blast on 3s through a 10T motor, VERY stable. On 4s, I'd probably add a pair of strands on each side. By the way, I'm holding it with my left pinky so I can throttle my tx - no bouncing or twisting around due to the balancing and lack of expansion.



I coat my balancing putty/clay with original waterproof (mostly) blue/white Elmers, or equivalent, twice using a small watercolor brush with about 30 minutes between applications. Keeps twigs, small rocks, nails, etc. from collecting in the wheels. Fingernail polish would probably work fine, too.



This set, with foams, has about 30 packs through it - phenomenal! I think I used 4 strands. Now, I do rotate them and I've just started feeling free to do donuts and burnouts on tarmac, but still...



The ties stay flexible, too.



These are less expensive Duratrax tires and work super for everyday and some club tracks, but not so good if you like to pop over jumps from the middle of the ramp.

Here's 3s/10T on them:



^^Some tires "jump" into the swell instead of gradually ballooning - no worries, either way, here!!

Ok, these are 1/8 monster/truggy tires tied with 5 strands. I run the stadiums 80% concrete/asphalt & 20% short grass. These are used 70% grass & 30% hard.




I'm pressing down about an inch, hard to gauge it from this angle.



Next time I charge up 4s, I'll grab a couple pics.

Coming: the process.
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Old 02-11-2016, 04:27 PM
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Okeedoke, I’m showing an example of a really deep tread where I could get away with heavier ties, but I’ll use my normal thread since it’s handy and what I use most:


It's a standard size for sergers, wandering from T18-T27 or Size 60-50. You can google "stitching thread sizing standards" to learn more. On every other brand I use, it clearly states the size without "coding."

Note the flash between the lugs, a combination of poor moulding and excessive feed pressure. This will keep the ties from laying close, or onto, the carcass of the tire. But I do like them because they're relatively sticky and deeply treaded...for the price - another reason I like them


I have snipped, cut and twisted the webbing out with tweezers - whatever's handy and easy on the wrist at the time. Some flash is so thin, I can simply pinch it out but I used dikes on all but one of these. Be careful not to nick the carcass:


Ready for tying after doing the same for the "opposite" angled lugs:



Pull off about 6" of thread, wrap it quickly around the tire however many cords you want and cut it off with an extra 6"' after that. This gives plenty at the start and end of the process to hold it securely. Let it fall away and untwist and it's ready.

Kind of half wrap the beginning, pressing it against the sidewall so that the traction of the rubber helps hold the thread, and start laying it between the tread around the tire:


I kind of press down on the whole thing and pinch the tread open to make wrapping easier. Pressing down helps combat the increase in diameter from the pinching and gives a tighter wrap without having to tug too hard on the thread, which could break:


If it seems difficult when first doing this, you can add a single twist after the 1st wrap, as you'll need to do at the end, to help maintain a slight tension. This is NOT a knot, but merely a half twist like the links in a chain:

Now, this tread is deep enough that I could get away just fine with actually tying knots, but I want to show what's always worked for me.

If the ends become frustrating, stick the very ends in a tape tab to hold with your fingers or stick to the sidewall:


At the end, half twist it again and dot it with CA, letting it dry for a few minutes while keeping the thread under mild tension:


Last edited by HappyGene; 02-12-2016 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:27 AM
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By the way, it's sometimes hard to tell when the thread ends actually engage when forming the half knot (chain link) so I try to keep both tails secure in my fingers during the twist so the wrap doesn't loosen if I judged wrong and have to twist the other way:


Back to the end of the wrapping...
Gently slice the very end of a fresh toothpick and anchor the tail:



Push the loop through under the wrap, draw it out and dot it with CA:


After that's dry, dot the lays with CA every 3/4 inch or even glue the entire wrap as shown above:


Trim the tails off close to the carcass:


Here's the usual 3s/10T test. These softer tires turn into pancakes, normally:

I don't have to worry about sudden over-correction while jumping or a burst of extra speed coming off a straight into a corner.

Here are a front & rear after 20 minutes of late night can't-quite-see-it-all-the-time craziness:



I'll get at least 50 full runs out of these on lipo, 70 on nimh - with even wear and predictable handling - that's worth 15-20 minutes of prep to me.

Gene
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:56 PM
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you wanted to show pictures, didn't you ? I don't see any
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:33 PM
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Ho ho...right you are! I can only see them if I log in. Sorry about that...I'll see what I can do!

Thanks for the notice,
Gene
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Old 02-12-2016, 04:40 PM
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Alrighty then...the pics s/b viewable by everyone, now.

Hey Werner, those are cool jump vids! Mostly I use natural banks & berms, but I think I'll whip out a plywood jump in the springtime.
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Old 02-13-2016, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by HappyGene
Alrighty then...the pics s/b viewable by everyone, now.

Hey Werner, those are cool jump vids! Mostly I use natural banks & berms, but I think I'll whip out a plywood jump in the springtime.

thanks ! yes I built a nice ramp so that there is no more work to do and the jump is nice and even

you thread is now very nice to read. good idea ! fishline is a good idea too but not as easy to apply
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Old 02-13-2016, 09:19 AM
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This was done in the '90's by nitro stadium truck racers.

It was garbage then, and still is. If you don't want excessive ballooning at low ground speed, then be easier on the throttle, and learn to roll on, instead of hammering it.
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:39 AM
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Well, I can roll it on smoothly and watch my speed as I've done for may years; but I find it more palatable to avoid that sudden growth at the very end whether hammered, or not. I can try different driving styles w/o those worries.

Too bad you don't like it, the results are awesome and the decrease of tire wear is money back into budget for other items. Also, doing this way alleviates the ties coming off and fouling the dog bones, which was only a moderate issue back in the day; but still a concern, especially when getting to the end of the treads' useful lives.

Hope you try it and find benefit
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:31 PM
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those are my 3.8 mashers. they expend like crazy so I might try your idea on those

that's only 4s...
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:40 PM
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That's awesome, Werner. You sure know how to glue a tire, too! My green wheel tire in the first pic did that when i touched down the opposite side then popped off and spit out its foam.
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