LadiesFirst

I have been running the Losi XXX platform for years and still do. I run stadium truck and have a number of them. I now have some XXX buggies and one of them has me stumped. It is like an MF2 but in buggy form. It has the gray Gen 2 transmission with the slot in the T-plate to fit that transmission, as well as the same rearend dynamics as the truck - except this is a buggy. I kind of like it and would like to use it. I have searched Losi, plus the internet and all I can find are manuals for the BK2 (which I do have also) and for the Brian Kinwald Graphite Edition. Both show the Gen 1 style transmission and T-plate. I'd like to find the manual for the Gen 2 XXX buggy. Since I didn't build this initially, I don't even know what weight oil is in the shocks. I would especially like to see the tips in the back of the manual for setting it up. Would the tips be the same as in the MF2 truck manual? I do have an MF2 manual for the truck, but I assume adjustments may work differently with a buggy than a truck. Can any of you oldtimers in the know help me out with this. It is very pushy, as I have discovered all the XXXs I have are, but man is it a great jumper! Thanks for any help you can give me.

bk2racer

iTrader: (32)

The bk2 definitely had the diff case which keyed into t plate. I think the later model cr did too. The bk2 had graphite arms towers etc and I think the cr had ea3

Davidka

iTrader: (86)

The only xxx buggy Losi made with the gray transmission is the Bk2, that's what you have there.

They run pretty well but you may need to run different rear tires than the one of choice at your track. Bk2's had such great rear grip that it could be hard to get them to steer. Download Jesse Robbers' standard setup and move the front upper link in at both ends, long vla front, shock in outer hole on arm w/orange spring.

The last configuration the team ran of the xxx was basically a Bk2 with the gen 1 transmission (with improved diff). I have a nice one for sale if you're committed to the platform.

LadiesFirst

Thank you David and BK2Racer. I looked online and the manual for the BK2 didn't show the difference in the rear. It makes sense though since the MF2 was the same, so the BK2 should be the buggy version of the MF2. David, I appreciate your offer, but I have received a lot of free buggies and buggy parts, so I have many of them now. I am committed to the platform though, and have way to much money into my Losi parts, wheels, etc. to change. We are on a strict budget so anything new is out of the question. Thank you so much for the setup tips. I will write them down and give them a try. Really appreciate the responses from both of you. I have only tried running it right now on carpet, so I know that is way different than dirt, although I will be trying it on clay soon. They require slicks at this track, so I will have to buzz down a set. All I have for this vehicle in the front are ribs - not my tire of choice. I appreciate your explanation. I'll give your tips a try. Thank you.

LadiesFirst

David,
I searched the internet and the only setup sheet I could find from Robbers was "Indy". The track was RC planet. Would this be considered the "standard setup"? It is for indoor, tight, smooth, high bite, which actually is closer to carpet. Could not find a sheet titled standard setup. Oh, and this is the only BK2 I have, the rest are BK standard or CR. I am wondering if I should also add weight to the bulkhead.

Davidka

iTrader: (86)

That setup should be the one. Your standard buggies will also do well starting with those settings. I really liked the alternative front end setting I posted above and found it to result in better steering and better corner speed through the turn, which was always a weakness against the Associated B4 on higher grip tracks.

A little weight in the front bulkhead works well, 1/4-1/2oz, much more and the car starts to push. People think adding weight adds steering, but that's not often true, it adds on-throttle steering and slows down off-throttle response, calming the car a little.

If your cr's are kit-stock, you should think about changing to the original XXX rear pivot and arms (Bk2 arms work too). Works better on smoother/higher bite tracks.

If you're running on a track that requires slicks, rubber compound will be key.

LadiesFirst

Thank you, David. I will try that setup and add the changes you suggested. Interesting what you say about the B4. I have an old B4 that was given to me used from a good friend as a gift for my birthday so I would start running buggy and could race with him. (I am basically a truck person). It worked fine outside, but in the clay it wouldn't turn, no matter what I did. Pushed very badly, so I found your B4 comment interesting. The B4.2 seems to be very good (also used), so I'm not sure what weight oil they used. I know so little about Associated, so it is a new experience for me, even though years ago I had an Associated 10T. But I haven't had much chance to run it. Have run into problems with my electronics which I will sort out soon.

I do have a CR buggy, but probably won't use it. Just too many vehicles, LOL. I have inherited many new and used small buggy and truck parts, and buggy chassis, and have also purchased many truck parts since they are no longer being manufactured. But I do have a CR truck that is my pride and joy that was pretty much custom built by a good friend who won a ROAR stock championship with it. I have written down every adjustment I can find on it, and still sometimes find very small modifications depending on what part of the truck I am tearing down. Many are just very subtle changes, but it has the motor centering kit and the rear hex wheel/rear drive shaft changeover. It was set up for steering. I love it, but it's not as good on carpet as I would like. I have found that the handling can vary greatly depending on the temperature of the carpet, even using sauce. It may work pretty well one day and then on another much colder day in the building, it is like a different truck - awful.

For the BK2, I am trying to put together a set of clay tires, as well as slicks made from treaded tires so that I can drive it regularly. Very limited funds here, so have to get creative and make due. In the winter, we only have carpet, but can drive to a clay track about 75 miles away. I'll let you know how it goes with the buggy. Thank you so much for all your great advice.

gatorage

here some more set-ups http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Def...030#prodSetups ... i think Brian Kinwalds Worlds setup is the standard box setup

LadiesFirst

Thank you, Gatorage. I printed the BK Worlds sheet. The only other question I have is regarding limiters. I have lots of them, but don't know which is which as far as size (.090, .050, .060). I have been trying to find a printed sheet or PDF that shows me the sizes, kind of like when you have a manual and it shows the screw sizes and lengths, etc., but with these limiters. Or even a list that would give me general info about how to tell. I know Losi had a "kit" of spacers. I do find a "kit" of spacers for the 22, but not sure they would fit the old XXX platform since I "think" the 22 has the bigger shocks?? Don't know if the shock shafts are different. I don't know much about the 22 platform. Do you happen to have any links to how to tell a limiter's size?

Davidka

iTrader: (86)

The 22 does have bigger shocks and shock shafts. There is a spacer set but the spacers aren't marked. It's best to get a caliper/micrometer for measuring. You can get decent digital ones from Harbor Freight or eBay for ~$10. Well worth it and I think you'll be surprised at how often you use it.

gatorage

well .060 is a little over 1.5mm and .090 is a little under 2.3mm it will get you in the ballpark(which most of the time all you need) but Davidka ways is a homerun if your trying to replicate!!!

LadiesFirst

Thanks guys. I actually think I may have one of those micrometers that I won as a door prize one time. It was from Harbor Freight. I'll have to go looking for it. Thank you for all of your help and great advice.

LadiesFirst

I can't believe I just noticed this last night, and forgot to mention it. I know that DavidKa was saying something about CR rearend. Instruction manual shows regular type hub. This car has the CR-type hubs (plastic) whereas the truck uses stainless steel. Do I assume this is another custom built vehicle? My BK2 sheets only show the standard-type hubs. I am not sure where to put the link on that hub. Right now, it is the outside hole in the center line of holes and goes to the center hole on the tower. Also using short on VLA arms. David, is this along the lines of what you mentioned earlier? I THINK the center line outside hole on these hubs may be the same as the outside hole in the regular hub. But when do you use the other lines of holes? Sorry to be asking so many questions. Gatorage, would you know??

Davidka

iTrader: (86)

The "car" truck had alloy rear hubs and a quick-change wheel system borrowed from the nitro truck (they'd burn through 2x sets of ties in a 45+ minute main) that had the added benefit of using the same rims front and rear. Some of the top guys converted back to plastic hubs for weight savings. There were aftermarket alloy hub carriers (Trinity & Racer's Edge) that were moderately popular but somewhat rare because the stock plastic hubs were very strong.

With the VLA, you do not change the width by moving the hub, you use the inner or outer set of holes, matching hub and arm so that you have two effective arm lengths without changing the track width.

The stock cr buggy had a wider pivot brace and short arms, which worked great on rougher outdoor tracks, the bk2 and original xxx has a narrower pivot and longer arms that was better on higher grip tracks, which is why it was popular to change the car "back" to the narrow pivot/long arm configuration, since most 1/10 scale racing was taking place on higher grip tracks by then.

LadiesFirst

David, great explanation! Being a truck person for all these years, I was not aware that the CR buggy and regular buggy had the differences in the pivot plates and arms. I will keep that in mind when looking through my parts. I had found some wider pivot plates and wondered why the difference.

I am aware of how the VLA arms work but didn't know why. Now I know thanks to you. So this buggy is a weird one, but I do remember years ago seeing that hub on new buggies, but thought they were strictly the CR buggy. I'm kind of liking this little critter. I won't be able run it for a couple of weeks, so it gives me time to work with the settings you gave me. You have been extremely helpful and I really appreciate it! Thank you.!