17.5 CW Rotation Timing Adjustment
 

Hey Guys,
I am running a mid motor conversion that is requiring me to run my motor cw. My esc is capable of doing so but I am wondering how this affects timing. I tried it with no timing change and it seems doggy from a dead stop then comes in like a power band. I also tried turning the timing to the same negative value as I was running positive. My timing ring does not have negative marks but I just made some marks to adjust accordingly. The results of this change made the motor initially spin in reverse but then changed direction to forward as it sped up. Obviously this wasn't correct so now I am hoping one of you can teach me a thing or 2. Thank you. I am somewhat new to the sport and really appreciate the advice.

I am running a HW SCT PRO and a Fantom Apex V2 HT 17.5.

My general experience is that motors can "act funny" if you reverse the motor direction in the ESC and then mess around with mechanical timing on the end of the can. Try 0 mechanical timing and then add timing via the ESC.

I've gotta ask, what are you running?

It is proline Pro 2. I would add timing but I want to run blinky. I know it is not a blinky esc but if I get it to work correctly I will by an esc with reverse capable rotation and blinky mode. At 0 timing to motor runs normal....normally slow. Lol.

Try retarding the timing if running reverse that is the same as advancing, also remember most motors the timing marks at zero can be off by 20 degrees. i run a trackstar 17.5 and i took the timing cover and dial off and dremelled the stops so i can adjust the timing way up if wanted so if you need more timing to retard you could do that.

I did that. With the timing negative the motor spun ccw even though it was set on cw at low rpm but then switched to forward as throttle input increased. I have never run this esc on this truck. Tonight i will run it ccw (even though that vehicle reverse), timing back positive and see if it's the esc is just being very tame down low. It honestly seems to be the best running cw at the normal positive adjustment but that "can't" be right. Thanks guys more help would be appreciated. Thanks

I don't think that is going to work. You might need to find a motor that is set to true 0 timing, where you can retard the timing in reverse to get some actual advanced timing... and then you will need to gear the car to the moon.

Personally, I would run a different car.

That's exactly what I didn't want to hear but if that's the answer then alright. If all else fails I will just run my 8.5 in sct mod. I really don't want to get a different truck as this one forces me to learn the art of tuning due to very limited info on setups and such plus being different is fun too. Thank you

I'm not saying you won't be able to run it... I just don't know if there is anybody here (including myself) that has ANY practical experience racing a motor that is running in reverse. I just can't see how it would work with modern day brushless motors that have advanced timing built into the endbells. (but I could be wrong, somebody correct me if so).

And you don't need a completely unique car to learn the art of chassis tuning. Chassis tuning is the same art form regardless of how many setup sheets you can find online. No setup sheet you find online will work exactly for you, as a unique driver, on a different track, that runs different tires, etc. My setup on my car changes EVERY weekend, because conditions change every week as the clay ages in it's build. You can't get those tiny changes week to week from a setup sheet from a guy running the same car at a track across the country... it's something you need to learn, feel, practice.

Brandon, You make perfectly good points and I agree with them all. I drag raced for 15 years on a professional level and I know exactly what you mean. I was speaking in general terms I guess. I e mailed fantom but no reply yet. Thanks

Hopefully someone can tell me why so I can understand a little more about how they work. I usually read a lot about various racing related things but not this yet. Hopefully it will be a learning experience.

Actually, I do have about 4-5 months worth of racing so far this year running my motor in reverse in my Dex210. I've done it with a Tekin RS Gen2 ESC and Redline Gen2 13.5T motor.

My car was originally a 3 gear rear-motor car, and I converted to 3 gear mid-motor. I accidentally built my diff housing flipped and never noticed until I had everything built up. I reversed the motor direction in the ESC and moved on. I did play with endbell timing to see what would happen, but the Tekin motor doesn't have a lot of "negative timing" available. Putting in "positive timing" on the reversed motor just made it slow. "Positive timing" on the reversed motor with timing added via the ESC made for a "peaky" feeling powerband that hit too hard too quick...almost like riding a 500cc 2-stroke dirt bike. It probably could have been tamed, but this setup just didn't make sense to me. Leaving timing at 0 on endbell and then adding timing with ESC has made for the smoothest power delivery so far with easy tuning.

...however...back to the Pro 2. I own one and know you don't have to reverse the motor rotation. You have to run a mid-motor conversion Pro 2? What's the matter the normal Pro 2 wasn't already different enough? ;-)

Wanderer. What you describe is exactly what I have. I did make it a mid motor so I will probably have to run my 8.5 which is also a tekin Gen 2. Actually I have it working pretty well but it just gave me something to do. I saw it on the pro 2 page and figured why not. Yeah its different.

Try seeing if you can mod the case to run the motor plate on the passenger side. That said, It'll probably be faster in rear motor, more airflow=lower motor temps= more gear

If its a 3 gear with the pinion on the right the motor will turn the correct direction. If the pinion is on the left rear then you need a 4 gear trans. I'm guessing you just flipped the trans and the pinion is on the left rear with a 3 gear. I also believe it will be nothing but trouble unless you race on extremely high bite.