Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road
Bump ups: Good or bad? >

Bump ups: Good or bad?

Bump ups: Good or bad?

Old 12-17-2014, 12:46 PM
  #16  
Tech Champion
 
Mason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 5,470
Default

We do a bump up challenge from time to time. Usually if you know the driver is a shoe in to win if starting from the front. This is just to spice it up a little and only at club level. Bump ups are great, as long as you require somebody to put a qualification time in. We experienced this on the dirt oval series and had to institute that rule.. kinda makes sense - you don't qualify, you don't race. But on the other hand, that could be money not coming in the door and for some areas that could be make or break. At larger events many play the bump up alphabet soup. We enjoy the challegne.. especially since you could be travelling 500-1000+ miles to race a track for one event. Wouldn't you want every chance you could get seeing how much of a disadvantage you are to the region racers? Some of those guys will travel the 100 miles for a month in advance to practice while its impractical for the rest of us. Bumps are nothing more than an Last Chance Qualifer built around the schedule of the r/c world. Heck even on the motorcross and dirt car events they'll have an LCQ and that's just to get into a B Main (because they just split it in 2 instead of doing a C main).

If you've been racing long enough you'll appreciate the opportunities it brings because you will have been in that situation where some less abled or experienced driver is weaving and you get collected or worse then you end up way down the list from where you would generally be. Then you have to task of working your way up - .. call it getting extra track time.. more for your money or whatever.
The one last thing is bump ups bring a little more excitement because its a chance to further your odds of winning overall. It helps detract from the guys who get pissed off and leave because they qualified in the last 5 or 10. Then that screws up the schedule/marshalling/etc.
Mason is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 01:28 PM
  #17  
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
 
samnelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Posts: 1,751
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Bump ups solely to qualify extra track time? That just sounds like an excuse for crappy qualifying. I like bumps, but not when misused. Bumps are big motivators for some folks and give them an extra goal to shoot for at the end of a race. Needlessly taking this opportunity away from these people is plain disrespectful. Do your best in the quals and run your main(s), wherever it is that you land.
samnelso is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 01:37 PM
  #18  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (166)
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Vancouver, Washington
Posts: 4,564
Trader Rating: 166 (100%+)
Default

If the track allows late signups, and someone is good enough to bump me out of an A-Main I am fine with that, if they run at least one qualifier. I think it should be left up to the race director if they will allow such actions to take place. I wouldn't be exuberantly happy about it, but I know the fast dudes around here, and know who should be able to get away with it. As far as people leaving early because of a bad qualifying round? I was last out of 8 cars in 4-Wheel drive class last Saturday, and ended up 4th. If it wasn't for a bad marshal job, I would have been able to recover in time to be second. I hate spoiled sports more then anything in this hobby. People with generally bad attitudes who don't get their way are the most annoying(usually team drivers).
jpcopeland1 is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 01:52 PM
  #19  
Super Moderator
iTrader: (31)
 
racer1812's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
Posts: 15,366
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by samnelso View Post
Bump ups solely to qualify extra track time? That just sounds like an excuse for crappy qualifying. I like bumps, but not when misused. Bumps are big motivators for some folks and give them an extra goal to shoot for at the end of a race. Needlessly taking this opportunity away from these people is plain disrespectful. Do your best in the quals and run your main(s), wherever it is that you land.
How do you "miss use bumps"? If they bump 2 from the B into the A and I qualify 2nd in the B. If we run the mains with a normal A main driver having to bump his way up through the mains, for whatever reason, and winning the B main. Knocking me down to finishing 3rd in the B (perfect world). I'm in the same spot I would have been had he qualified for the A to begin with, 3rd in the B and not making the bump.
racer1812 is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 01:53 PM
  #20  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (3)
 
aeRayls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,257
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Bumps are the best thing to happen to electric racing. Club racing and big races. I do believe every trophy race or "big" race I've been to doesn't allow you to keep the trophy if you bump.

Personally I feel they should be used ALL big events. Here's why: say you spent a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars to attend a bigger national event type race. You get seeded/sorted with a heat filled with much less skilled drivers or just plain hacks. Even with 4 qualifiers it takes your 2 best which is difficult when you're getting bounced around or always dodging traffic. You have the consistency and the lap times to make the A main against the best but circumstances out of your control prevented. Now you can at least bump in!!

Example, I was still a privateer in 2012 running whatever gear I wanted. Went to the Jconcepts winter indoor nationals in Missouri. My qualifiers were filled hacks and constant wrecking... I couldn't get anywhere. I qualified 3rd in the C main out of 90 entries in Mod buggy! They ran bumps and triple A mains that year. I won the C... 2nd in the B and bumped into the A starting 10th. I finished the triple A mains 6,10,5. I was stoked!!

I had a great car all weekend and drive great. My qualifiers were rough and without bumps I would've ended up just the winner of the C main.

Bumps need to happen at all levels period. Nitro has alway done it.
aeRayls is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 01:54 PM
  #21  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NW Burbs, IL
Posts: 134
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

I think in the long run people will be glad for bumps and hate bumps on different race days depending on how it affected them that particular day. I do think that things happen to everyone at some point and a fair way to handle this is to qualify for ANY main, you must qualify at least 1 out of 2, or 2 out of 3 heats. No qualy, no main. I know people can run late and things happen that can make it inconvenient for you, but guess what, others made it on time and respected the schedule, at that point its on you, not everyone else that was able to make it on time.
lpspeed2 is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:00 PM
  #22  
Tech Addict
iTrader: (17)
 
carcrusher46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: the 'burgh
Posts: 648
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

Before my local track ran bump-ups, half of the guys in the lower mains would either leave or just not run the race to focus on the other class that they did make the A-main in, which made it very lame for the other racers and any spectators that may have been there watching that night. Now that there's a race for the bump spot every week, everyone shows up and we give ample time (at least 3 races) between the B and A so the car can be turned around in time for the A-Main.

That alone gives me reason to support the bump-up system.
carcrusher46 is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:03 PM
  #23  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (61)
 
orcadigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 2,183
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

I am personally not a fan of bump ups. We don't do them in onroad out here and somehow people manage to enjoy themselves too so it is definitely not necessary.

Some say the good drivers may qualify bad and this is their way to get back to the A. If that is the case, then don't do qualifying, race Reedy style. Bumps unfortunately trivialize qualifying, whether you use Rocket Round (you only need 1 good qualifier) or Qual Points (almost always has at least 1 drop), you have some safety net, why more?

When I used to race 1:1 cars, one of the guys I raced with had a goal each race. It was to beat 2 people that were faster then him. It is the definition of racing to me, that to beat someone involves a lot more then just driving faster, but consistency, driving in traffic, orchistrated passing, etc. I am not sure why we need to hand hold our fast drivers who somehow had all bad qualifiers and then still give them the ability to make the A. Either make qualifying meaningful, or just race Reedy style. If the fast guy "deserves" to be in the top main no matter where he qualified, then I do not see the point of qualifying.

Now the other side of this, letting someone in a lower main potentially bump to run with the faster main, there is some appeal. So limit bumps to a single main, you retain the intention of bumps to encourage people to race their hardest and get a reward for it, but you stop the people sandbagging and you make qualifying actually important.

If the penalty for bad qualifying is that you get to run more mains, I see that as not much of a penalty.
orcadigital is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:03 PM
  #24  
Tech Elite
Thread Starter
iTrader: (57)
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 3,673
Trader Rating: 57 (100%+)
Default

Some great points from both sides. From a spectator perspective, I love watching someone go for it. Even if they go through my main, I don't mind as I get to try to stop them from pulling it off

I do find it a little annoying if I myself had a bad set of quali's and now I need to try to get the only other spot Even if I don't get it though, I know it's a result of my qualifying and my main run so I'm not bitter about it.

Originally Posted by Mason View Post
The one last thing is bump ups bring a little more excitement because its a chance to further your odds of winning overall. It helps detract from the guys who get pissed off and leave because they qualified in the last 5 or 10. Then that screws up the schedule/marshalling/etc.
I'm going to assume you're a track owner. Good to get perspective from that side

Originally Posted by aeRayls View Post
Bumps are the best thing to happen to electric racing. Club racing and big races. I do believe every trophy race or "big" race I've been to doesn't allow you to keep the trophy if you bump.

Personally I feel they should be used ALL big events. Here's why: say you spent a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars to attend a bigger national event type race. You get seeded/sorted with a heat filled with much less skilled drivers or just plain hacks. Even with 4 qualifiers it takes your 2 best which is difficult when you're getting bounced around or always dodging traffic. You have the consistency and the lap times to make the A main against the best but circumstances out of your control prevented. Now you can at least bump in!!

Example, I was still a privateer in 2012 running whatever gear I wanted. Went to the Jconcepts winter indoor nationals in Missouri. My qualifiers were filled hacks and constant wrecking... I couldn't get anywhere. I qualified 3rd in the C main out of 90 entries in Mod buggy! They ran bumps and triple A mains that year. I won the C... 2nd in the B and bumped into the A starting 10th. I finished the triple A mains 6,10,5. I was stoked!!

I had a great car all weekend and drive great. My qualifiers were rough and without bumps I would've ended up just the winner of the C main.

Bumps need to happen at all levels period. Nitro has alway done it.
Good example.

Originally Posted by Mudcat981 View Post
Bump Ups are not new. It has been around since I was racing Tamiya Frogs in 1986!
Did not know that. Thought it came with lipo's and brushless since you can run so much more now. Guess my track just didn't do it.
shagino is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:04 PM
  #25  
Tech Master
iTrader: (4)
 
Jaymancd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: in my house
Posts: 1,371
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

How can bumps be bad. Would you rather not race at all when you dont have a good day qualifying. I think bumps are the smartest move for the sport as many people in rc are from the dirt track group so they will understand the system
Jaymancd is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:04 PM
  #26  
Super Moderator
iTrader: (31)
 
racer1812's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
Posts: 15,366
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

At the club level, smaller club racing, bumps aren't always an option. Not time wise anyway.

My local track doesn't do bumps, and it's not an issue. But the heats are normally "stacked" with little a little variation from what the mains normally post as. So when you run your qualifiers there's very little reason to have a good run, other than breakage. I've never seen a regular A-main guy have 2 bad runs and end up in the C. The B main maybe, but not the C. And if he does, "it is what it is" and he comes back next week.
racer1812 is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:13 PM
  #27  
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
 
samnelso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Fitchburg, MA
Posts: 1,751
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by racer1812 View Post
How do you "miss use bumps"? If they bump 2 from the B into the A and I qualify 2nd in the B. If we run the mains with a normal A main driver having to bump his way up through the mains, for whatever reason, and winning the B main. Knocking me down to finishing 3rd in the B (perfect world). I'm in the same spot I would have been had he qualified for the A to begin with, 3rd in the B and not making the bump.
"Bump ups solely to qualify [justify] extra track time...". I was responding to the post previous to mine...
samnelso is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:13 PM
  #28  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (61)
 
orcadigital's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 2,183
Trader Rating: 61 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by aeRayls View Post
Bumps are the best thing to happen to electric racing. Club racing and big races. I do believe every trophy race or "big" race I've been to doesn't allow you to keep the trophy if you bump.

Personally I feel they should be used ALL big events. Here's why: say you spent a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars to attend a bigger national event type race. You get seeded/sorted with a heat filled with much less skilled drivers or just plain hacks. Even with 4 qualifiers it takes your 2 best which is difficult when you're getting bounced around or always dodging traffic. You have the consistency and the lap times to make the A main against the best but circumstances out of your control prevented. Now you can at least bump in!!

Example, I was still a privateer in 2012 running whatever gear I wanted. Went to the Jconcepts winter indoor nationals in Missouri. My qualifiers were filled hacks and constant wrecking... I couldn't get anywhere. I qualified 3rd in the C main out of 90 entries in Mod buggy! They ran bumps and triple A mains that year. I won the C... 2nd in the B and bumped into the A starting 10th. I finished the triple A mains 6,10,5. I was stoked!!

I had a great car all weekend and drive great. My qualifiers were rough and without bumps I would've ended up just the winner of the C main.

Bumps need to happen at all levels period. Nitro has alway done it.
Just saying as a counter point. Some guy managed to run better qualifiers then you, potentially up to 4 of them, but at least 2 and made it to the B, but you negated potentially days of their practice and qualifying because of bumps.

You are right, without bumps, your qualfiers would have determined how you qualified...with bumps, they did not. I can see why you would like them, but for every good story of someone who worked his way up through them, is someone who qualified better that lost their chance. Yes, you beat that person in the B, but again, they beat you in all of the qualifiers. Not taking anything away from your accomplishment, its not easy to bump that many mains, but your 3 mains to get to the A negated everyone elses 4 qualifiers that they ran better then you. That doesn't seem fair somehow.

It is what it is, just my personal opinion is different from yours.
orcadigital is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:30 PM
  #29  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (4)
 
Mudcat981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Hanford, Ca
Posts: 803
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

As for bumping as far back as 1986, Lipos would have been a god send. But as it was we would have minimum 3 batteries, one for the main and 2 for the heats. If you had to bump you had to recharge a used "dead" battery, which increased your anxiety, limited your power for the A-Main. But those who could afford it would have 10-12 NiCd batteries, 4-5 for heats and mains, the others for practice. Batteries would get very expensive $40-$100 each and only last 6 months before the cells would have to be re-matched. Man I do love the Lipos and Brushless motors!!!!
Mudcat981 is offline  
Old 12-17-2014, 02:39 PM
  #30  
Super Moderator
iTrader: (31)
 
racer1812's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
Posts: 15,366
Trader Rating: 31 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Mudcat981 View Post
As for bumping as far back as 1986, Lipos would have been a god send. But as it was we would have minimum 3 batteries, one for the main and 2 for the heats. If you had to bump you had to recharge a used "dead" battery, which increased your anxiety, limited your power for the A-Main. But those who could afford it would have 10-12 NiCd batteries, 4-5 for heats and mains, the others for practice. Batteries would get very expensive $40-$100 each and only last 6 months before the cells would have to be re-matched. Man I do love the Lipos and Brushless motors!!!!
And many now only have ONE battery per car. Unless you have enough other mains to put between the bump class you're screwed. You still have to have time to charge the one pack. Lipos don't necessarily help in this case.

Obviously I do love them though.
racer1812 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.