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Old 11-15-2015, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan_r View Post
Plus it's nice to be a hold out as everyone else seems to have dropped AE and switched to Tekno/TLR around here.
Young guy today told me if I wanted to race this truck, it's the wrong brand. get a Tekno/TLR or Luse? I said its all Im gonna have for a long time. I better enjoy it and have fun.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:31 PM
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Gene: Yeah it's amazing how much of an effect gear mesh can have. That was actually one of the first issues I had to correct with this truck. Once I got everything right and sealed away it has been a non issue. I feel your pain; we have no local hobby shops here so I've gotten pretty good at building a system to keep spares on hand. Part of every vehicle purchase is a Stanley 10 bin organizer.

I then research the vehicle and make a note of which parts seem to be weak, buy those parts along with common things I.E springs, Arms ect and start from there.

As far as the body goes, I have two. The stock screened body and a Pro-line ECO style. Both bodies have survived months with nothing more than a few scratches. Don't take this the wrong way but if you're cartwheeling and flying outside the lines on big jumps all bodies will suffer. The clear bodies are slightly stronger but they have limits. I don't know what your experience level is but if your going through bodies take a hard look at your driving. At the tracks I go to, the truly fast guys look so smooth on the track that they almost look slow. But the lap times don't lie. If you're crashing a lot, slow down. Just an opinion and free advice. No offence meant, just being straight forward.

The stock rear hub's are weak. I never even ran mine. There was enough chatter on the net about them that I went ahead and upgraded them to the alloy GPM hubs right out of the box. No issues after HUNDREDS of laps. I'm one of those strange people that believe 95% of drivers don't need 95% of the bling parts available for hobby grade cars. But certain parts are defective or abnormally weak out of the box. These rear hubs are one of them. The GPM parts are cheap, available on Amazon and you'll never have to worry about them again. So far, my front end has been fine. I'm still running the stock hubs, carriers and knuckles. I did shim them all though to reduce play.

Yeah the servo is just too weak for this truck. That seems to be a trend with RTR Associated. A guy brought a new RC8 RTR to the track the other day and his RTR XP servo was weak as well. I don't think you need to go as far as I did, that servo was expensive! But anything will be better than what it came with. Try to shoot for something with at least 140 oz of torque, metal gears are a must on 4x4 SCT as well.

As far as batteries are concerned, I don't like recommending anything as being "better" than others. Too many variables and most brand name batteries out today are of decent quality. Try to avoid the cheapest and you likely don't need the most expensive either. My personal preference is to practice with Turnigy Nano-Tech and race with Reedy. 4x4 SCT has the most demanding system out of all the 1/10 scale vehicles. This applies to servos, batteries and drive train loads. Good advice would be to go with the highest C rating you can afford and use at least 12awg wire with at a minimum, 4mm solid bullets. Ideally, 5mm and 10awg is better. If you use connectors as opposed to direct wire bullets, use quality connectors like genuine deans or XT60's from Hobbyking. Pat attention to your connections, if you notice one is hot after a run, replace it immediately and consider upgrading to something bigger or higher quality. As far as Mah, I use 5000 mah for 5 minute qualifiers and 7000 mah for 10 minute races. I have never ran them below 55% of rated Mah. Getting the correct gearing and battery size is a critical part of your set up. You want to set up everything to get the least amount of voltage drop off at the end of a race without over discharging your batteries. This is a very individual set up as it depends on your power system, driving style and gearing, among other things. Again, these are simply my opinion's that have served me well over the years. Back in the mid 80's scorching hot connectors were the norm, we don't have to deal with that any more!

If you race, go with 2s. it's all that's legal almost everywhere. Bashing? Run whatever you want.

As far as the paraboard, I don't know what that is. I can only assume its a "balance board" to allow you to balance your packs. I balance charge at 1C every single time. My batteries last for years. Just today I finally had one of my batteries hit 13m/6.5 IR. That's about as much as I'll take before it needs to be replaced as a practice battery. The battery is 4 years old. I stop racing them at 10m/5 IR. Batteries are too expensive not to care for them.

I shop pretty much exclusively online. Amain, Tower Hobbies, GravesRC, Amazon and Ebay.

I hope I was helpful. Please keep in mind that these are only my opinions, based on my own personal experience. I only talk about what I've actually worked with on my own vehicles. Your experience may be different. Many people have helped me over the years so I'm more than happy to give back. AR
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Meangene67 View Post
Young guy today told me if I wanted to race this truck, it's the wrong brand. get a Tekno/TLR or Luse? I said its all Im gonna have for a long time. I better enjoy it and have fun.
All good trucks. but there is nothing wrong with what you have. All my race cars are Associated. I've been running them since the first RC10; a few decades ago. Lol. But pretty much all modern hobby grade cars are capable of putting you in the top 5 at a club race. Tamiya, TLR, AE, Xray ect. have all won national and world class races. Have fun and run what makes you happy. Suspension dynamics are pretty much universal across the board. If you can set up and tune an Associated car, you can apply that same knowledge to a TLR car. You don't need a particular brand to be competitive. JMO-YMMV. AR
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:03 PM
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Ok, just got back from the track after putting in a few laps with the new Associated V2 aluminium threaded shocks. I didn't really work on dialing the truck in as I was there to work on another car but man, they are smooth as can be. It was very noticeable how much better the truck responded to track variations. The truck seemed to settle in much faster and was not upset as much by bumps and ruts that affected only one tire or axle.

The current setup I used for these shocks are Black 4.6 springs front and rear, 0mm pre-load on the front shocks, 5mm pre-load on the rear shocks. Associated 42.5 in the front and 37.5 in the rear. I built them as per the instructions, used the supplied red o-rings and coated them with Associated Green Slime.

Shock hole positions were:
Front
Outer hole on the top
3rd hole in on the bottom

Rear
Outer hole on the top
Inner hole on the bottom

At this point, after the brief testing, I don't think I'm going to install lighter fluid just yet. It did not seem to be over dampened at all so I'm going to experiment with ride height first. The improvement wasn't so much as a completely different feel, it was more of a refined feeling. More to follow but for now, A+ and I'm happy that I installed them.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan_r View Post
I'm still running the stock hubs, carriers and knuckles. I did shim them all though to reduce play.

Yeah the servo is just too weak for this truck. Try to shoot for something with at least 140 oz of torque, metal gears are a must on 4x4 SCT as well.

As far as batteries are concerned,

If you use connectors as opposed to direct wire bullets, use quality connectors like genuine deans

As far as Mah,

Just today I finally had one of my batteries hit 13m/6.5 IR. That's about as much as I'll take before it needs to be replaced as a practice battery. The battery is 4 years old. I stop racing them at 10m/5 IR. Batteries are too expensive not to care for them.

I shop pretty much exclusively online. Amain, Tower Hobbies, GravesRC, Amazon and Ebay.

AR
1)I was wondering how you installed shims as they are what helped your steering better than cups and balls. excluding the servo. are the shims basically just a washer that you installed outside the tire? or inside that plastic hex? where can i get shims?

2)Appreciate advice on the servo torque. again a later upgrade.

3)Gonna Buy 2S Venom 5000Mah

4)we use deans connectors and they seem to be quality.

5)Balance board sounds like a must. What the hell does the 10M/5 IR mean?

6)I can learn to bargain hunt around the web.

7)Your advice sounds spot on. And I take no offense for our bad driving. Tumbles destroy bodies, Gotcha. lol. My last battery at the track I did amazing. But with low power bringing it in, I crashed and busted that hub.

8)I might replace the hubs, but i hate the thought of putting stress elsewhere on the car. Metal Gears I will think about as well.

9)oh and the sway bar you haven't put in yet? that should help from corner rollovers right?


Off to youtube to educate myself on shocks.
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Old 11-17-2015, 05:33 PM
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Meangene67;14269257]1)I was wondering how you installed shims as they are what helped your steering better than cups and balls. excluding the servo. are the shims basically just a washer that you installed outside the tire? or inside that plastic hex? where can i get shims?

Grab your turnbuckles and hold them still, then try to rock the tire with it off the ground. Take note to where the play is coming from. You will see small gaps in between the A arms, hubs ect. This is where you try to put shims in. The trick is to take up the play without causing a bind. I use a combination of 3mm I.D washers ranging from .3 to .5 mm thick. Associated sells them PN 7337 for example, but you can find these type of washers on Amazon/Bolt Depot and the like by the 100 count for the same price. The difference between a properly shimmed car and one that is not is like comparing a 250,000 mile Honda Civic to a brand new Camaro. The car only goes where you tell it to. Newer gen cars have gotten much better; old Rc10's required shimming out of the box to be effective.

2)Appreciate advice on the servo torque. again a later upgrade.



3)Gonna Buy 2S Venom 5000Mah

Very cost effective. They should do you fine.

4)we use deans connectors and they seem to be quality.

I used Deans for years. it was only recently that I converted to XT-60's for no other reason than they were easier for me to grip. Be careful with the Dean's though. There are a lot of "fake" Deans floating around. The real one's are very good, the fake one's are hit or miss in my experience.

5)Balance board sounds like a must. What the hell does the 10M/5 IR mean?

I apologize, total internal resistance of the pack and IR of each cell. Low resistance is what you want. Better battery chargers will allow you to see this and it gives you a very good indication of the packs health. As lipo's get older, the IR increases and affects the available output current and voltage over the discharge of the battery. As a battery age's, it becomes apparent at the end of the race as the battery starts to drop off faster than it used to. Measuring IR is simply a good way to predict this happening. Going off memory, 1-4 is where a good high quality pack will be. Or somewhere close. Lower quality packs will start out higher and usually get higher faster. Usually. Once the IR reaches a certain point, I move those batteries to the practice battery box. Once they reach a certain point after that, they get replaced. Nothing to really worry about at this point but if you stay in the game it will become relevant.

6)I can learn to bargain hunt around the web.

7)Your advice sounds spot on. And I take no offense for our bad driving. Tumbles destroy bodies, Gotcha. lol. My last battery at the track I did amazing. But with low power bringing it in, I crashed and busted that hub.

8)I might replace the hubs, but i hate the thought of putting stress elsewhere on the car. Metal Gears I will think about as well.

I agree 100%. But in this case the part is deficient and will continue to cause problems. Very similar to the hard B44 front A arms. It's not if they will break but when. The alloy rear hubs have not broken nor have they caused any additional breakages in hundreds of laps. I strongly recommend them. Not to mention they are $7.35 delivered on Amazon as an add on item or $16.99 delivered through Amazon Prime.

9)oh and the sway bar you haven't put in yet? that should help from corner rollovers right?

I have not installed the sway bars yet. i do one change at a time and then extensively test that change. Once I get the new shocks working to their maximum potential I will work with the sway bars. Corner rollovers are sometimes caused by traction rolling. A high center of gravity (SCT) and high amounts of side bite can cause this. The sway bars work to keep the chassis level and therefore help to reduce weight transfer to the outside tires; and prevent excessive unloading of the inside tires. In essence, this will INCREASE your overall traction. However, by slowing down the weight transfer, it can have the effect of reducing some traction rolling by preventing the truck from "tripping" over the outside tire. On the other hand, sway bars can actually decrease overall traction in certain situations by not allowing enough weight transfer; by balancing the amount of traction over the entire axle, each individual tire has less traction. This would then result in a 4 wheel slide or front/rear break out as opposed to a traction roll.


Off to youtube to educate myself on shocks.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:24 AM
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Heading to the track today to finish tuning another car so I'm going to throw down a few batteries with the PROSC today. After fiddling with the new shocks some more on the bench, I'm going to try some different springs.

I usually try to start out with a spring that ends up somewhere near the middle of the shock collar adjustment range when at the desired ride height. It has always worked for me and allows for some adjustment range up or down. With the stock 4.6 springs on the front, along with the new shocks, the front end sat 4 mm higher than the rear when keeping with the same settings that I used on the composite shocks.

So with the Nickle 3.8 springs installed on the front, along with Black 4.6 springs on the back, I was able to get my desired ride height (30mm) and have the shock collars 5-8mm from the top. I'll give this a go today and see where it's at.

I had forgotten about an issue I've been trying to dial out of this truck. It revealed itself on Monday; I had worked it out with the other shocks. The truck has a tendency to break free at the rear and spin out when landing a jump and applying a slight whip to have the truck pointing towards the corner entry after the jump. It;s only apparent in this situation. When landing a jump where you have time to let the truck settle before turning, it's fine. This is the reason for trying a lighter spring in the front. The heavier spring in the rear may help stabilize the rear end quicker and prevent this break out from happening. Just a theory but we'll see.

Initially I was able to tune this out by lowering the rear end slightly. It sounds crazy to have the front ride height at 30mm and the rear at 29mm but it worked really well. It's my belief that the lower rear ride height applied more weight to the rear axle, thus keeping it from losing traction as fast. The problem is that I like to run my chassis mostly level for the rest of the track, so by applying more pressure to the ground (heavier spring), maybe this will have the same effect.

I also ordered some parts to allow me to adjust the rear toe in. Thunder Tiger PN: PD9149. Apparently they require some dremel work to fit (Prolite thread) but the ability to have 1, 2 or 3 degrees of rear toe may help this issue as well.

More to follow. Once I get this thing dialed in again I'll post my "modified" SC10 setup sheet to help anyone else out there.
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Old 11-18-2015, 08:19 AM
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Additionally, I decided to explore alternative springs for this truck. The aluminium v2's are 25mm long. The front shocks for an RC8.2E are listed as 29mm (blue ones) so that should be close enough to work. I ordered the front spring set, ASC89541, and should have it by Friday. In my opinion, with the new shocks this truck needs stiff springs. As I posted earlier, installing the new shocks resulted in an immediate drop in rude height. With the original nickle 3.8 springs in the rear, I had to thread the shocks almost all the way down to get the desired ride height. It's possible that the slight extra length of the RC8 front springs will help with this and allow for wider range of spring adjustment; without having to max out either the spring stiffness or the shock collar adjustment. I'll report results once I've done some testing.
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Old 11-18-2015, 08:24 AM
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thanks ALAN R. I didnt research shocks yesterday at all because earlier I stated I was upgrading charging system. After all of my research. I wound up spending big money on an aging system. The Graupner Polaron EX with 12V Power Supply. They have an EX model that outputs 1400watts, but of course the price was more. and soon they will release a 24VDC power supply. Also I ordered Gens Ace 5000mAH LiPo 2S 50C batteries. says I can charge at 5C. I hope so, I would like to be able to run and come back to a fresh charge. However ill have to grab a pit area next to the window adjacent from the track to watch it. I just want 2 batteries ready in 20-25 min.

Happy Trails
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Old 11-18-2015, 10:02 AM
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JEALOUS!!! I looked at those chargers and man.....if I had the extra $$$. That thing is NICE! You'll be able to monitor everything and then some. Many hours of tinkering...lol

I'm actually at the track now. My theory worked. The spring change solved the rear break out. I'm getting close with these shocks, overall traction has increased quite a bit. To the point I may have to go down some on the front diff fluid. The front end isn't slipping enough and it's hurting my high speed turning ability. Unforseen issue. Though I'll always take too much traction as opposed to not enough.
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Old 11-18-2015, 12:37 PM
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Alright, now I understand why they released updated CVA's. I landed a large triple kind of nasty and when I accelerated out of the following turn, the truck felt funny. I pulled it in to find the p/s front cva broken right at the outer hub. These cva's have lasted for a pretty long time so I'm ok with it. Ordered two sets of the updated cva's from Associated. When they get here I'll post any differences that I can visually see. Apparently the cva's were an issue on the Prolite. I thought they upgraded the ones on the ProSC. Maybe they have..maybe not. Either way, back in business next week.
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Old 11-20-2015, 02:18 PM
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Ok, some parts arrived today. I can now confirm that front springs from the RC8.2 Factory Team car fit the new PROSC V2 threaded shocks perfectly. They are slightly longer but do not bind at all under full compression. These springs look to be of a better quality than the ProSC springs. So for now, here is what we have as far as Associated springs for this truck:

ASC7232 White 3.0lbs springs (PROSC)
ASC7233 Nickle 3.8lbs springs (PROSC)
89542 Green 4.0lbs springs (RC8.2 FT)
89543 Silver 4.3lbs springs (RC8.2 FT)
ASC7234 Black 4.6lbs springs (PROSC)
89544 Blue 4.65lbs springs (RC8.2 FT)

That seems pretty good to me as far as a wide range.

I also received the new 7262 V2 CVA kits for the front and rear of the truck. They look identical the front CVA's that came with the PROSC. Maybe the metal is better. Either way, the upgrade will be CVA's in the rear instead of the dog bones. I also noticed a few very thin shiny spots on the old CVA's in a few places; indicating that they are touching something somewhere in the suspension range. I may need to clearance certain area's. I'll update what I find and what I do about it.
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:52 PM
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The coupler pins are smaller diameter on the new cva set, this will give the bone more material around the coupler.
Look at the difference in the slot size on the bone and you will be able to see there is more material right where they usually break.
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Old 11-21-2015, 06:27 PM
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TruckD: Ah, I see now. I didn't notice that at first as that's exactly where my original one broke. But yes, you are correct. The pin is smaller and the area at the "knuckle" is definitely beefed up. Hopefully this will at least slow down the failure at this area. These heavy 4x4 SCT's put a lot of stress on the drive line. I have actually been surprised at how well things have held up considering how long and hard I've been running this truck.

While it's apart getting these parts changed out I started to inspect all the other drive train parts. It was then that I noticed a slight wobble of my center driveshaft. upon closer inspection, the wobble is coming from a slight bend in the slipper shaft. Interesting......I don't see how this could have gotten bent. It's held in pretty securely. I didn't notice it before because it's covered by the center brace. Who knows how long it's been this way. So I ordered two replacement slipper shafts and I'll keep an eye on it in the future.

Additionally, if anyone is interested; I found a guy on RCG that has a machine shop and he does custom spur gears for RC race cars. He's going to machine a couple 32P steel or aluminium spur gears for me to try out. I have not really had any issues with the spur since I made the corrections listed earlier but the chance to upgrade to a virtually indestructible spur gear is something I'm not going to pass up. Once I get them in I'll post some pictures and my opinion on them. He will be making enough to sell a few so if they are good, I'll pass the information along.

Regardless, with the upgrades I've done to this truck I think it's now a really solid platform. Thankfully most of the shortcomings are easy fixes.
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Old 11-23-2015, 02:43 PM
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Ok, latest update on my quest to get this truck right.

I received my new slipper shafts. After pulling out the bent one and looking at it carefully, for the life of me I can't figure out how it got bent. The bend is between the outer (front) slip plate and the front drive cup. I don't see how torque could cause this and there is nothing there for it to hit so.....I almost wonder if it's been this way since new. If it happens again I'll fabricate a forward support and bearing assembly for the front of this shaft. Strange.

I also decided to go back to the plastic rear A arms. Upon inspection I noticed a bulge where the 4/40 screw that holds the lower rear shock mount goes in. Apparently this is a VERY high stress point on this truck. The SC10 captures the shock eye within the A arm so as to spread out the load. I guess the impact of a 6 pound truck landing on this point is too much. I think my original idea of using a 4/40 bolt with a nut installed on the end will be more permanent. Besides, I have found the third hole out to be the best position for the lower rear shock mount anyway. So I won't need to change this often, if at all.

The last of my maintenance/replacement parts should be in tomorrow so the truck will be back on the track by Wednesday. I couldn't resist messing with it while it's apart and installed the new Tekin RX8 Gen 2/PRO4 HD 4300. This thing should be a beast on its next outing. Hopefully I can get the new suspension and new power system dialed in for this weekend's race. I'm curious to see how well it does against a full field of Losi/Tekno trucks with these upgrades. More to follow.

Is anyone else having issues with the rear lower shock screw pulling out of the arm? People aren't saying much about these trucks across the forums.
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