Sad story: Cheating rampant at big races...
08-05-2014, 06:58 PM
#751
Not allowseened. A couple snips:
5.2.3
The use of traction control sensing devices, active suspension devices, and steering control devices aided by gyroscopes or accelerometers (G-force sensors) of any kind is strictly prohibited. Sensors may be used for the purpose of passive data recording but not for adjusting the performance of the vehicle while in motion.
10.8.2
No onboard traction control or other electronic aids are allowed, other than fail-safe systems.
5.2.3
The use of traction control sensing devices, active suspension devices, and steering control devices aided by gyroscopes or accelerometers (G-force sensors) of any kind is strictly prohibited. Sensors may be used for the purpose of passive data recording but not for adjusting the performance of the vehicle while in motion.
10.8.2
No onboard traction control or other electronic aids are allowed, other than fail-safe systems.
..I've never personally used any electronic aid..but they would help me for sure....but I'm sure theirs racers using them..as in any form of racing some will cheat and most won't..
08-05-2014, 07:28 PM
#752
Would it be checked for at a club race, no not likely. Unless it's noticed that someone has rather special car control and it's challenged I suppose. Developing technology presents both opportunity and new challenges no doubt.
I agree most don't cheat, well at least not knowingly. But the perception, or whatever the correct word is, that some may be can be corrosive as many have mentioned.
08-05-2014, 10:24 PM
#753
So if everyone thinks 17.5 buggy should be tech ed even at a club racing level, what is the best way to do it without spending a lot of time and breaking down each motor?
Because you can look at it and see it is legal and still has the 12.5 rotor in it, but what about the rest of the motor?
Because you can look at it and see it is legal and still has the 12.5 rotor in it, but what about the rest of the motor?
08-05-2014, 11:31 PM
#754
So if everyone thinks 17.5 buggy should be tech ed evif someonen at a club racing level, what is the best way to do it without spending a lot of time and breaking down each motor?
Because you can look at it and see it is legal and still has the 12.5 rotor in it, but what about the rest of the motor?
Because you can look at it and see it is legal and still has the 12.5 rotor in it, but what about the rest of the motor?
08-06-2014, 12:45 AM
#755
The difference between a well tuned 17.5 2wd buggy and a 2wd buggy with a drop in, out of the package 17.5, and the book gear setup, is huge.
Once I found the sweet gear and timing setup, free'd up my drivetrain, shimmend my motor perfectly, and removed my slipper assembly, my car was so much faster it had to look like I was cheating. And that was off road on pottery clay.
I'd imagine it's even worse in on road.
Doesn't seem "fair" to me. There's a ton of racers in stock that'll never find that 17.5's sweet spot. Slowing the cars down further with 21.5, will only widen the gap between the "haves", and "have nots".
I think the stock guys just want a class where they can hang onto their unfair advantage. Stock is anything but fair and even. If you want equal power, run mod.
This thread is just like one of the "hacking" threads. Bunch of racers: "I run clean, i don't hack." Yet Rc is a 90% hackfest right now. 17.5 cheating is everywhere.
Once I found the sweet gear and timing setup, free'd up my drivetrain, shimmend my motor perfectly, and removed my slipper assembly, my car was so much faster it had to look like I was cheating. And that was off road on pottery clay.
I'd imagine it's even worse in on road.
Doesn't seem "fair" to me. There's a ton of racers in stock that'll never find that 17.5's sweet spot. Slowing the cars down further with 21.5, will only widen the gap between the "haves", and "have nots".
I think the stock guys just want a class where they can hang onto their unfair advantage. Stock is anything but fair and even. If you want equal power, run mod.
This thread is just like one of the "hacking" threads. Bunch of racers: "I run clean, i don't hack." Yet Rc is a 90% hackfest right now. 17.5 cheating is everywhere.
08-06-2014, 12:45 AM
#756
dupe
08-06-2014, 05:13 AM
#757
So if everyone thinks 17.5 buggy should be tech ed even at a club racing level, what is the best way to do it without spending a lot of time and breaking down each motor?
Because you can look at it and see it is legal and still has the 12.5 rotor in it, but what about the rest of the motor?
Because you can look at it and see it is legal and still has the 12.5 rotor in it, but what about the rest of the motor?
It's not the od that's different it's the id where it attaches to the shaft. Mod rotor has more magnet and is thicker.
08-06-2014, 04:33 PM
#758
The difference between a well tuned 17.5 2wd buggy and a 2wd buggy with a drop in, out of the package 17.5, and the book gear setup, is huge.
Once I found the sweet gear and timing setup, free'd up my drivetrain, shimmend my motor perfectly, and removed my slipper assembly, my car was so much faster it had to look like I was cheating. And that was off road on pottery clay.
I'd imagine it's even worse in on road.
Doesn't seem "fair" to me. There's a ton of racers in stock that'll never find that 17.5's sweet spot. Slowing the cars down further with 21.5, will only widen the gap between the "haves", and "have nots".
Once I found the sweet gear and timing setup, free'd up my drivetrain, shimmend my motor perfectly, and removed my slipper assembly, my car was so much faster it had to look like I was cheating. And that was off road on pottery clay.
I'd imagine it's even worse in on road.
Doesn't seem "fair" to me. There's a ton of racers in stock that'll never find that 17.5's sweet spot. Slowing the cars down further with 21.5, will only widen the gap between the "haves", and "have nots".
To be fast in blinky it is quite complex and realistically requires a brushless motor tester.
The fastest guys here are mixing and matching sensor boards, rotors, stators whilst shimming sensor boards & rotors to get the best out of them. Not to mention the rezapping of rotors or using outlaw rotors.
They are also pushing the motors very hard going through lots of rotors and melting plenty stators. 8 shorted stators at a recent event which was blinky.
For club day racing it appears to be run what you like regardless of the rules. At a recent club day 4 out of 10 cars were running blinky the other 6 were not. 3 were happy to admit to running boost with the justification that they were slow and used boost to keep up. The other 3 denied running boost although the ESCs clearly indicated they were not running blinky.
Happy for guys to try boost on club days as club days are all about practice and testing but at some point club day racing becomes pointless if guys are cheating to try and get the win.
08-06-2014, 05:05 PM
#759
Pretty much and despite the comments about blinky being easier for the average racer it is very hard to be fast.
To be fast in blinky it is quite complex and realistically requires a brushless motor tester.
The fastest guys here are mixing and matching sensor boards, rotors, stators whilst shimming sensor boards & rotors to get the best out of them. Not to mention the rezapping of rotors or using outlaw rotors.
They are also pushing the motors very hard going through lots of rotors and melting plenty stators. 8 shorted stators at a recent event which was blinky.
For club day racing it appears to be run what you like regardless of the rules. At a recent club day 4 out of 10 cars were running blinky the other 6 were not. 3 were happy to admit to running boost with the justification that they were slow and used boost to keep up. The other 3 denied running boost although the ESCs clearly indicated they were not running blinky.
Happy for guys to try boost on club days as club days are all about practice and testing but at some point club day racing becomes pointless if guys are cheating to try and get the win.
To be fast in blinky it is quite complex and realistically requires a brushless motor tester.
The fastest guys here are mixing and matching sensor boards, rotors, stators whilst shimming sensor boards & rotors to get the best out of them. Not to mention the rezapping of rotors or using outlaw rotors.
They are also pushing the motors very hard going through lots of rotors and melting plenty stators. 8 shorted stators at a recent event which was blinky.
For club day racing it appears to be run what you like regardless of the rules. At a recent club day 4 out of 10 cars were running blinky the other 6 were not. 3 were happy to admit to running boost with the justification that they were slow and used boost to keep up. The other 3 denied running boost although the ESCs clearly indicated they were not running blinky.
Happy for guys to try boost on club days as club days are all about practice and testing but at some point club day racing becomes pointless if guys are cheating to try and get the win.
Stock.
-it ain't fair
-it ain't slow
-it ain't for beginners
-it ain't cheaper
What's the point of all this again?
08-06-2014, 06:28 PM
#760
Pretty much and despite the comments about blinky being easier for the average racer it is very hard to be fast.
To be fast in blinky it is quite complex and realistically requires a brushless motor tester.
The fastest guys here are mixing and matching sensor boards, rotors, stators whilst shimming sensor boards & rotors to get the best out of them. Not to mention the rezapping of rotors or using outlaw rotors.
They are also pushing the motors very hard going through lots of rotors and melting plenty stators. 8 shorted stators at a recent event which was blinky.
For club day racing it appears to be run what you like regardless of the rules. At a recent club day 4 out of 10 cars were running blinky the other 6 were not. 3 were happy to admit to running boost with the justification that they were slow and used boost to keep up. The other 3 denied running boost although the ESCs clearly indicated they were not running blinky.
Happy for guys to try boost on club days as club days are all about practice and testing but at some point club day racing becomes pointless if guys are cheating to try and get the win.
To be fast in blinky it is quite complex and realistically requires a brushless motor tester.
The fastest guys here are mixing and matching sensor boards, rotors, stators whilst shimming sensor boards & rotors to get the best out of them. Not to mention the rezapping of rotors or using outlaw rotors.
They are also pushing the motors very hard going through lots of rotors and melting plenty stators. 8 shorted stators at a recent event which was blinky.
For club day racing it appears to be run what you like regardless of the rules. At a recent club day 4 out of 10 cars were running blinky the other 6 were not. 3 were happy to admit to running boost with the justification that they were slow and used boost to keep up. The other 3 denied running boost although the ESCs clearly indicated they were not running blinky.
Happy for guys to try boost on club days as club days are all about practice and testing but at some point club day racing becomes pointless if guys are cheating to try and get the win.
08-06-2014, 06:39 PM
#761
It aint cheaper than what? Why do so many people think it cost a lot more than mod?
08-06-2014, 06:59 PM
#762
Mod uses more tyres, more wear on drive line but blinky stock costs more in motors and for some battery.
I will let you know in a few months after I run mod which is cheaper. Two guys that have run both locally say mod is cheaper than blinky.
I will let you know in a few months after I run mod which is cheaper. Two guys that have run both locally say mod is cheaper than blinky.
08-06-2014, 07:00 PM
#763
Unless they go lucky with a great motor out of the box they would be slow here.
08-06-2014, 07:33 PM
#764
08-06-2014, 07:35 PM
#765
Im really trying to understand people's logic and thinking because I just dont see it at my local tracks and we have quite a few fast people.
The kid that won 17.5 buggy at this years Cactus Classic doesnt spend money on a fancy charger ( his is somebody's used hand me down ), new batteries regularly ( his is somebody's used hand me down 60c ) or a hand full of new motors ( he has 1 that is more than 6 months old ). Also he doesnt have a bunch of light weight after market parts on his car but yet he is very fast. I believe this same kid ( Ashe Deering ) was just the T.Q. at last weekends Surf City race at OCRC in 17.5 buggy.
Aslo..
The kid that got 2nd at this years Cactus Classic ran a used B4 ( not a B5 ) That was a hand me down from another racer that moved to a B5.
With this being said, where is this added cost to run 17.5 blinky everyone keeps mentioning when these 2 kids that dont have all the stuff people think they need to have to be fast are fast and wins without it?
Last edited by PFKAOG; 08-06-2014 at 09:36 PM.