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Old 07-26-2005, 03:29 PM   #121
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Platinum, great post. Its a business and should be treated as such. And so should all of this hoopla. Not third grade.
Gee; (and this is directed to all of us nobodys out here, that do read and form opinions of people we read about), who do you think will get the vote next year??
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:29 PM   #122
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Anthony as hard as this is to believe , i'm not welcome in the Pro series either. That is an entire different story. I like my big cash events best of all. Cool people good times.
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:30 PM   #123
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Get the vote for what?
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:32 PM   #124
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Jack Smash there were three people on that committee who had a vested interest in where that race went. Aaron Waldorn, Mark Pavadis and Bobby Moore. Those three guys got to choose where they wanted to race. Thats really fair, right?
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:34 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer Allman
Platinum great post. I did work to improve my track this year. I hope it showed. We'll see if the work I did really makes a difference or if I'll just be pushed to the side again.

I've tried to help ROAR out many times only to get kicked in the teeth.

Let's try this one and see how you guys would like. it.

Oh Homer come join our committee,

Homie says ok, I want to help.

Two days later, Homie you must leave the committee because we are deciding on rather you get the race or not and we do not want you to see what we are saying about you.

SO in a matter of days I was in and out of the committee.

Homie- Don't take that personally! That is the WAY it should have been handled!

Do you really think YOU should have been able to sit in on a meeting discussing YOUR TRACK and the nats and the other track owners being considered, not!



Lets look at this from outside of the RC world...

Lets say Homie and I owns a paving Company and the city of Dayton needs a road paved, and Homie is on the "paving committee" and I am not. Should he be ask to leave or should he be able to sit in and hear EVERYTHING good and bad about my company with the oppurtunity to rebut anything said about his company.... NOPE! Why cause then I am going ot be Homie and be PISSED cause I didn't get WHAT I WANTED.
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:37 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Homer Allman
Anthony as hard as this is to believe , i'm not welcome in the Pro series either. That is an entire different story. I like my big cash events best of all. Cool people good times.

I thought you just hosted an RC Pro series race??
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:38 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Homer Allman
Jack Smash there were three people on that committee who had a vested interest in where that race went. Aaron Waldorn, Mark Pavadis and Bobby Moore. Those three guys got to choose where they wanted to race. Thats really fair, right?
As far as I know, neither Waldron, Pavidis, nor Moore own tracks that had a bid for the Nats. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:42 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer Allman
Jack Smash there were three people on that committee who had a vested interest in where that race went. Aaron Waldorn, Mark Pavadis and Bobby Moore. Those three guys got to choose where they wanted to race. Thats really fair, right?

Homer- take a breath and step out from being a trackowner and in to a racer and RE-read that post.....


Those guys didn't/don't own a track, they are RACERS they were ask "where do you want to race" They (I don't know why) said somewhere other than the Tiltyard. Could it have been thye wanted to be in Texas vs. Va. yeah could it have been they liked GEARS better, could have, or did they just want to give it to a track THEY thought deserved it?

But in no way should a trackowner whos track is being CONSIDERED be able to sit on that committee. I feel ROAR did SOMETHING RIGHT, this time FINALLY. (Awe man did I just say that out loud)

I hate that it had to happen to you Homer, but I would agree with that no matter who it was.
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:44 PM   #129
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imprsme; Ha! Great!


He still doesn't get it
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Old 07-26-2005, 03:47 PM   #130
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I hope Homer doesn't take my post the wrong way! Its not intended to flame him or befriend him, I know Homer has some VALID issuses with ROAR.... But I hope he knows that I respect him as a Trackowner, Racer and Person! But sometimes you need someone else (outside the whole deal) to bring somethings to light! I hope that is what he is taking from my post!
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Old 07-26-2005, 04:05 PM   #131
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this is Lisa

Anthony, Homer recused him self from the discussions about who gets the nats. He absolutely shouldn't have been involved and he made the first effort to be removed. However, he didn't quit the committee, only the conversations regarding the nats. Other issues were at stake. He was never permitted back in to have a voice in them.

Surely, you would agree, that albeit Homer's controversialness we certainly know how to run a race and run a track. Therefore he must be an asset to any organization who deals with either issue. Plus, a little controversy isn't always a bad thing. My largest frustration results from exactly your point - nothing gets done about these issues!

By the way, just to clarify - I am track owner & hobby shop owner. I occassionally have something to say but most of the time I keep quiet. I am the one who makes all bids, and I am the race director for all events - NOT HOMER!

I've yet, and I'm still looking, for someone to say they haven't had a great time at my races. I cannot remember a race where there were any problems. And that I think is due to MY careful planning.

And Dave, I truly hope you were joking when you stated that my track didn't receive your vote because of a band.

As I've stated on other threads and as I'll state again. Gears was/is capable of hosting a quality race. History stands for that. The Tiltyard is capable of hosting a quality race - history stands for that.

A track should be chosen for any race based on it's merits. Period.

A committee to select something as important as a national representing an organizaiton should have more than 10 days in which to meet/plan.

Bids - that are required - should be reviewed by all those making a decision. Dave, what were your exact words - "I thought your bid was simply your name written on a piece of paper!" You've got to be kidding me. I worked weeks preparing not only a written presentation but also a video presentation including footage of a race in progress. And all those questions you, Dave, asked about airports, etc, would have been answered had you just received the information in the bid.

Can you people see my point? I couldn't care less that Gears beat me out for a race, let's change the process.

Can anyone honestly say that uninformed people can make a better decision?

Can anyone honestly say that a band should have been a deciding factor in a national r/c event? If that's the case, I'll hire a mariachi band, or a high school band, or whatever. Although I cannot for the life of me see what difference that makes.

Is it not more important that I host a great race at a quality track?

There are other points I'll gladly discuss if you want to get into it. I just wish you guys would see through the trees and let's make these changes so that someone else (me or any other track on the planet) doesn't have the same nightmare that I had last October.
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Old 07-26-2005, 04:07 PM   #132
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Anthony I get it and did not take it personal. You are right I should not have been there, but they ask me to be there. They themselves didn't even know what the committee was going to discuss. If the did why did they invite me in.

I didn't host any RC Pro series races this year.
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Old 07-26-2005, 04:26 PM   #133
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again, this is Lisa - this is a letter I wrote to ALL ExComm and only 1 person had the respect to respond. And still I see no action on any of these points. I thought perhaps you'd like to read it. This was sent Sunday, October 24, 2004.

"This letter is addressed not only to Rick Wilson, ROAR president, but to all the other members of the ExComm.



I’d like to first take this opportunity to congratulate Gear’s for their successful bid for the 2005 Fuel Nationals. Please do not take this email as ‘sour grapes’. This is most certainly not my intention.



However, as previously discussed with Rick, the process in which they were selected is VERY flawed. The fact that we didn’t receive the race is not the problem here – the manner in which it was decided is.



My hopes that this letter to each of you will bring these BLATENT flaws to the forefront so that future year’s bids (not just from us but from others) do not have such an unfair process to contend with.



First, we were WRONG for accessing the private offroad conference discussion. However, we were contacted by several sources who insisted we should know what was going on in there. The concerns weren’t that we weren’t getting the race, but instead on how the whole process was being handled. Initially we resisted going into the conference but after Dave Kingsten personally contacted us and gave us information on the voting, we were curious. Then word came that Aaron Waldron was laughing that he would be sure we never held another ROAR race – we just couldn’t resist seeing what was going on. In his bragging, Aaron released his username and password for others to read his handiwork. This was given to us.



I was shocked to see the discussion. In fact, I discussed this very issue with Rick who lied to me and said that there was no “Homer bashing”. I had already read it word for word. Rick, apparently, you must either think that I’m obtuse or you’re completely blind.



Post #86 – from Aaron Waldron – “I have a pretty big problem with the fact that Homer was able to hold flame wars with ROAR… And now we’re going to hand him another opportunity to do it again? To me..this carries a little more clout than a deadline.”



Post #93 – from Aaron Waldron – “…simply him taking responsibility for his actions. Despite Rick and Dawn repeatedly asking him to take the conversation into private e-mails he blasted ROAR over and over until the opportunity to host another event.”



Post #96 – from Mike Chapin – “…to some that may be a very legitimate reason to overlook his bid.”



Post #165 – from Aaron Waldron – “We give Homer another shot at blasting us if something doesn’t go entirely his way, and we show that his past comments make no difference…..(if Gear’s gets the race) Homer goes nuts on the Grid”



I could go on through the 300 some posts, but I believe you’re getting the picture. Had we read that Gear’s was the better track, we would remain silent. However, the entire 300 posts were about why Homer shouldn’t have the race! Those of you who were able to read it know that what I’m saying is true. This should not have been allowed to continue. Rick, Dawn, Dennis, and probably others, were throughout that thread time and time again but the bashing was permitted to continue.



The next issue I have is with the committee themselves - 3 of the members of the offroad committee are racers who will be attending the event – so basically they get to decide where they want to run. 2 members of the committee are not even current ROAR members (also noted by Dawn in post #225).

The committee was put together just 10 days prior to their recommendation deadline without benefit of the written bids or the videos/pictures that were sent to each member of the ExComm. As a matter of fact, one member told me after the fact that he thought the bid was a matter of “your name on a piece of paper”. Dennis Sampson (per Dawn’s request in post #58) was supposed to send each member copies of the bids for their review. These were never received by any member that I spoke with. Perhaps if they had been the nonsense about 5 hour drives from the closest airport, unacceptable hotels, etc. would be dispelled by the information contained in the bid. Mark Pavidis made several disparaging comments about our track and it’s acceptability for any race. Members without bid information wouldn’t know if this is true or not. In post #238 Mark went on to say that our layouts do not change (we redesign the track each and every year), that are trophies were inadequate (we spent well over the designated % of entry fees and everyone we spoke with were thrilled and loved them), and that there wasn’t acceptable hotels (like any other town, there are good and bad quality accommodations – where Mark stayed was his choice, or at least the choice of his team).



We have been a ROAR track for many years – if memory serves me, well over 10 years. We have worked hard to promote racing, host good races, and work our way up the ROAR ladder. We have held ROAR club races, ROAR state championships, ROAR regional championships, ROAR multi-regional championships, and lastly the ROAR electric nationals with the largest attendance of any in the past 5 years. Although some said it was more difficult to get to, they were quoted in RC Extreme as having said it was “one of the best tracks in the county”. We have even held regional and state championships at the request of our regional director when no one else wanted them, simply to support ROAR. We are hoping for the opportunity to host the ROAR fuel nationals. As a matter of fact, since the electric nationals, our focus and track design has changed to fuel racing in preparation for the needs of an event like the ROAR fuel nationals.



Again, I have no problem that Gear’s has this event and we wish them the best and have done so many times publicly. I just want the procedure for deciding who gets the event changed so that we (and others) are chosen fairly.



There are also 2 other questions we’d like answered:



Homer was asked to join the offroad committee and then was banned (as it should be) during the discussion of who gets the race even though others who were racing were allowed to stay. Despite MANY attempts to regain committee access for the discussion of other issues, he has been denied without anyone actually saying that his input is no longer welcome. So can we please resolve this – if he’s no longer wanted on the committee, than just say so. Please just respond to this email so that we can put this behind us and move forward.



Is there a future for the Tiltyard with ROAR? Is there any point in our continuing to be a ROAR track and submitting bids for future ROAR races? Frankly, I’d prefer not to waste my time or yours if we are going to be continually blackballed. We are not the average ROAR track. We do not need ROAR insurance, and we do not host club races. Our track and location is designed to host large scale events. We go above and beyond to insure that each and every single racer leaves our races having had a great time. I can assure you this is no way profitable – we do it because we love racing.

Since the East coast is ‘due’ for the 2006 fuel nationals, will our experience and support be overlooked for another track that has no ROAR experience, has offered ROAR no support, and still isn’t a ROAR track simply because the factory guys want to race there? I’m only asking for a fair chance as I’m confident that the Tiltyard’s resume can stand up to any. If that’s no longer possible, please have the courtesy and honesty to respond.



So as not to be accused of ROAR bashing, I’m making these points privately. However, don’t let that diminish the validity of these points. Let me also say that prior instances of ROAR bashing were not that – it was simply trying to correct rules flaws, clarifications, etc. for the good of the racer and ultimately ROAR.

As long as personal vandetias and secret conferences are part of the ROAR process, how can ROAR be proud of its races and the whole racing organization? Can ROAR see a future that involves Homer, I and the Tiltyard? If so, what does that future hold?



Sincerely and with respect,



Lisa C. Bryant

Owner of the Tiltyard"
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Old 07-26-2005, 04:48 PM   #134
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and I was under the impression that Aaron Waldron did something terribly wrong to cause you guys to not get the Nats, thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 07-26-2005, 04:57 PM   #135
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All I got from that letter is that Aarons concern in regards to homer putting
blame on ROAR if the nats don't go smoothly. I'm sorry to say this but when it comes to hosting events. every thing is considered, from the facility track,
location, and of course track owner or race director. From reading this forum
you guys just blast everybody that doesn't see your point of view.
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