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1/10 buggy Question, Serpent Spyder Vs. Durango Dex210

1/10 buggy Question, Serpent Spyder Vs. Durango Dex210

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Old 12-16-2013, 11:51 AM
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I own both a Schumacher and a B4.2 right now (and have had a 22T and DEX210 in the past) The Schumacher is night and day higher quality than the B4.2, it has the precision fit and finish of a high dollar touring car! The B4.2 is slopped out after 1 run and the ballcups need replaced before you actually run it.

The DEX actually had too many adjustments for the average club racer, and it was hard for me to find a good stock setup that works, and it was PITA to do anything to that car the way it was designed.

The Losi 22 was OK, it was awesome to build and fit and finish was pretty darn good, and I liked that it came with 2 sets of wheels and 2 body sets. The steering design on the Losi's are a total joke though.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:31 PM
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The funny thing about the 210 is that with the exception of the 3/4 gear mid or rear motor option, it doesn't really have any more adjustment than any other car. It is just built in. You don't need to buy new rear hubs or front caster blocks to change things. People overthink things. If you know how you'd setup any other buggy, why would you do it any differently in this car? Most cars are so close to each other geometrically that setups between them really should be quite similar.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
The funny thing about the 210 is that with the exception of the 3/4 gear mid or rear motor option, it doesn't really have any more adjustment than any other car. It is just built in. You don't need to buy new rear hubs or front caster blocks to change things. People overthink things. If you know how you'd setup any other buggy, why would you do it any differently in this car? Most cars are so close to each other geometrically that setups between them really should be quite similar.
By the time i build my new setup I'm gonna have a whole list of dedicated links to your posts, I find tons of good stuff from you when i search. I didn't want to revive any dead threads so i figured i say thanks here. Thank you!
And of course thanks to everyone else who has helped as well, i really do enjoy reading through debates over who likes what and why
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DsWright View Post
They have the most adjustability out of the box, and some adjustments that some cars just don't have, but should.
That is of no benefit for most racers. Properly designed kits have the adjustability they really need. Unless a racer is very skilled in setup, the added adjustability of some kits represent a larger patch of weeds to get lost in.

Originally Posted by DsWright View Post

Is the B4 a competitive car? yes, Losi and others are as well. The difference is in the minor details that make a difference on the track, and perhaps in your wallet.
Since the release of these newer competitors, I have seen very little change in the level of track dominance of AE and TLR. While I agree that there are higher quality kits than the AE stuff (TLR has been equal since the 22), I don't see any of it translating to faster lap times than are achieved by the AE cars.

Full disclosure: I do not run AE.
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
That is of no benefit for most racers. Properly designed kits have the adjustability they really need. Unless a racer is very skilled in setup, the added adjustability of some kits represent a larger patch of weeds to get lost in.



Since the release of these newer competitors, I have seen very little change in the level of track dominance of AE and TLR. While I agree that there are higher quality kits than the AE stuff (TLR has been equal since the 22), I don't see any of it translating to faster lap times than are achieved by the AE cars.

Full disclosure: I do not run AE.
Thanks, i saw the setup as a PITA as well, but i figured once you properly know how it all works than you will have an advantage those who cannot compensate in the same way, however small it is.

That's also good to know, i would attribute it to the fact that it's easier to improve on a single platform than to keep learning the best methods with a new platform every year. Then again, AE is a well known brand and has not only brand recognition, but a huge following as well, you don't get this by having middle of the road products.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
That is of no benefit for most racers. Properly designed kits have the adjustability they really need. Unless a racer is very skilled in setup, the added adjustability of some kits represent a larger patch of weeds to get lost in.
I do tend to agree, as a large part of the population of racers tend to pick a setup from a pro from the worlds or some well known track that might not even represent what surface they race on. They they try and put it on the car and just run it without ever changing much. btw, if you are ever bored, ask Fredswain his thoughts on internet posted setup sheets

Since the release of these newer competitors, I have seen very little change in the level of track dominance of AE and TLR. While I agree that there are higher quality kits than the AE stuff (TLR has been equal since the 22), I don't see any of it translating to faster lap times than are achieved by the AE cars.

Full disclosure: I do not run AE.
Here in the midwest a few years ago it was all AE and Losi. Now it is a mix of manufacturers that i wouldn't say there is any track dominance by AE or TLR any longer.

Each car has it's own "personality" if you will. Some of them have a larger "tuning window" than others. The serpent has a very large window, the AE does as well. the 22 has a bit narrower range before the car seems to struggle, but not bad. This is where the Durango suffers i think. Changing track conditions during raceday really can be a chore to keep up with on some cars.

That was my biggest struggle with the 22, when the local track would dry out the handling would go away. I tried to find a good neutral setup with it that would only require minor changes for track changes, but never could hit it just right. The setup changes for this particular track you would need from round to round were what i would consider major changes. You had to make certain you had the correct guess and correct change or you were screwed. My local track is known for drastic changes in grip levels throughout the day certain times of the year. So it exaggerates that on a car more than most might see.

I fought the 22 for a year before i parked it and waited for the serpent kit to be released. Had a B4 years ago that i actually liked quite a bit, was a good car.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DsWright View Post
I do tend to agree, as a large part of the population of racers tend to pick a setup from a pro from the worlds or some well known track that might not even represent what surface they race on. They they try and put it on the car and just run it without ever changing much. btw, if you are ever bored, ask Fredswain his thoughts on internet posted setup sheets



Here in the midwest a few years ago it was all AE and Losi. Now it is a mix of manufacturers that i wouldn't say there is any track dominance by AE or TLR any longer.

Each car has it's own "personality" if you will. Some of them have a larger "tuning window" than others. The serpent has a very large window, the AE does as well. the 22 has a bit narrower range before the car seems to struggle, but not bad. This is where the Durango suffers i think. Changing track conditions during raceday really can be a chore to keep up with on some cars.

That was my biggest struggle with the 22, when the local track would dry out the handling would go away. I tried to find a good neutral setup with it that would only require minor changes for track changes, but never could hit it just right. The setup changes for this particular track you would need from round to round were what i would consider major changes. You had to make certain you had the correct guess and correct change or you were screwed. My local track is known for drastic changes in grip levels throughout the day certain times of the year. So it exaggerates that on a car more than most might see.

I fought the 22 for a year before i parked it and waited for the serpent kit to be released. Had a B4 years ago that i actually liked quite a bit, was a good car.
Agree on all points. I had similar experience to your 22 with the older B4. Smoking fast but sensitive to traction changes and it deteriorated more rapidly than the Losi XXX with slop or differential condition.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:24 PM
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That's really interesting, i would have expected the less you could change the more sensitive it would be since you couldn't adjust to other factors, then again i guess it's all about compensation. AE or Serpent is where my list is at i believe, maybe and RB5 or RB6 for a good price but they seem to be around the $500 range.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by iclrag View Post
maybe and RB5 or RB6 for a good price but they seem to be around the $500 range.
Check your local hobby shop. I heard mines had the RB5's NIB for $200
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:41 PM
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RB5's had really weak rear axles. Those should definitely be upgraded to MIP.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by iclrag View Post
Never once thought of schumacher as competitive! not that it's a bad brand, just not as common for me. I've been out of the hobby a long time, Thanks, i thought the RTR's were all fairly entry-level competitive.
The first car I ever raced was a schumacher fireblade and I used to dominate the losi XXXs and associated B3s of the time with it.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by shagino View Post
Check your local hobby shop. I heard mines had the RB5's NIB for $200
Yeah, but, Tammies doesn't carry Kyosho, neither does hillsboro hobby. Tammies does, however, have a Losi 22 1.0 for $300 (great price! not...)

Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
RB5's had really weak rear axles. Those should definitely be upgraded to MIP.
I would do that for any kit, Axles and have a gear upgrade kit laying around so when i finally have enough poet to destroy them i have the upgrades ready.

Originally Posted by elikeatts View Post
The first car I ever raced was a schumacher fireblade and I used to dominate the losi XXXs and associated B3s of the time with it.
Thats good, i just saw Schumacher / Reedy, had no idea. Reedy makes awesome engines
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