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Old 06-28-2005, 09:20 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank McKinney
Maybe another thread could be started by a seasoned off-roader about how to get more tracks to try a loose, loamy and "dirty" surface. I've never built or maintained an off-road track but I'd guess that it's easier to maintain a primarily clay track, and even easier to deal with a blue-groove track. This could be why most of the tires out there are mini pins? I remember racing my RC10 Worlds with Y-patterns and step-pins, now that was off-road
From my experience, it's hard to keep a track packed down and wet all day long. Perhaps we just need to be more efficient. The nice thing about a packed track is that the tires don't wear out nearly as fast. We generally water down the track the night before the race. It starts off good, but by the end of the day, it'll start to break up in areas. (Especially after the MT's run their qualifier).
To help hold things together, especially the jumps we use mag-chloride before the season starts. It basically glues the dirt together and helps keep any moisture in the track. For our next race, we're going to try watering the track between qualifying rounds. For the state championship race, we'll go out mid-week and put down soda syrup to help give the track some traction.

I'm with you though, I like the loose dirt, because it puts throttle control at a premium. I just don't like what it does to my tires!! heh
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:11 AM   #77
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We water the night before,then in between rounds.It holds up pretty well for the day unless it's particularly hot(like last weekend).Throttle control is at a premium,no doubt!I enjoy the changing conditions and the fact that the track has loose and hard packed areas.Keeps you on your toes for the full 5 minutes.lol.
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:28 AM   #78
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i ran at the regionals in enfield for 2wd buggy, holeshots basically sucked compared to ifmars. track was awsome when it was wet, the dry track just sucked.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:08 AM   #79
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If you were to till up a track and pretty much leave all the fluff left over from that and had a group of racers using "modern" tires and compounds it wouldn't stay loamy/fluffy in the race line for long. The softer tires just act more like brooms compared to the dangerous to catch by hand compounds of back in the day. The softer tires will displace a certain amount of dirt creating loose dirt in race line, but usually that isn't much. If you were to go run with one of the taller/harder tires from back in tha day it would displace mroe dirt creating more loose dirt in race line and more bumps/ruts. If you want to dig a hole in the ground you going to use a shovel or a mop? So like everything else in r/c the tradeoff for having more grip/softer tires is the partial disappearance of the old school type tracks.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:17 AM   #80
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ok, i must defend the clay tracks because im a columbus boy. I mostly run at CRCRC and Planet during the winter, both of which are very high bite clay tracks. We use pink slicks at planet and a little pin at CRC. Yes, pink. Yes, it is very tacky. Does any of that really matter? I also run at outdoor tracks in the area during the summer. The things I love about those 2 indoor tracks have nothing to do with what tires i run. Honestly, i hate pink compound..it works at a few places few and far between. But i still love these 2 tracks because of the competition. During the middle of the winter i can run against guys like rob shaffer, jesse robbers, brian handwork, al horne, scott burns, chris bing. And this year at the january race, we had guys like travis, truhe, maifield, thielke, hodapp. I dont really care what you guys think about the surface, or how its killing the hobby, or what tires im running. I get to race against last year's mod nats champ...nuff said
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:50 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanGriffin
ok, i must defend the clay tracks because im a columbus boy. I mostly run at CRCRC and Planet during the winter, both of which are very high bite clay tracks. We use pink slicks at planet and a little pin at CRC. Yes, pink. Yes, it is very tacky. Does any of that really matter? I also run at outdoor tracks in the area during the summer. The things I love about those 2 indoor tracks have nothing to do with what tires i run. Honestly, i hate pink compound..it works at a few places few and far between. But i still love these 2 tracks because of the competition. During the middle of the winter i can run against guys like rob shaffer, jesse robbers, brian handwork, al horne, scott burns, chris bing. And this year at the january race, we had guys like travis, truhe, maifield, thielke, hodapp. I dont really care what you guys think about the surface, or how its killing the hobby, or what tires im running. I get to race against last year's mod nats champ...nuff said
I'm not even sure what the point of this is. These guys would race anywhere. But it's nice to see that the only thing you care about is racing 11 guys. LOL.
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Old 06-28-2005, 12:49 PM   #82
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erm..that wasnt my point. worded poorly..my bad. It is what it is i guess. I'll race anywhere as long as i dont get bored.
yea, too bad those 11 guys kick my ass all day long! lol
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:00 PM   #83
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(IMO) Off-Road racing is just that OFF-ROAD!!!!

Outdoor MX is not run on blue groove, ( that would be Super Motard ), the ruts and changing track conditions are part of it and the riders expect that. The same goes for Super Cross, The track may start out groomed but can develop 2 to 3 foot ruts buy the main.

Also the Baja races are Off-Road, no grooming or blue groove ( except for the short road sections).

I agree the tracks need to be loamy with the changing conditions, that is part of the challenge.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:05 PM   #84
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The last SX race I went to they groomed the track before the quals, semis and mains.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:19 PM   #85
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But was it blue groove?
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:34 PM   #86
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Tires really took a turn when inserts were introduced. Before that, the rubber had to be stiff enough to support the tire and soft enough to provide grip, but they were hard enough to have a longer life than what we are getting now. Losi 4 rows would get at least 2 racedays on loose dirt and X patterns 3 or 4 racedays on clay.
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Old 06-28-2005, 01:41 PM   #87
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I think Scrubb won the Region 1 Champs that were held at Madness for 4wd with the BJ4x4.

If I remember correctly, he was using Ifmar Pin Reds in the rear, and I am not sure what compound in the front but I believe the pattern was Ifmar Pins.

What sucks is that losi doesn't make any more of the IFMAR pins for 4wd fronts. At the tracks I have been too that range between hard and loamy depending on how wet or dry things are, the IFMAR pins hook up quite well. I have made it a point to hunt down as many pairs of fronts as I could and I have about 4 NIB sets in my box.

I am not sure what to say about the spec tire rule as I don't race at that level, but I think that ultimately, if costs become too much of a burden, attendence is going to suffer significantly. Anything that can control costs but don't become a detriment to racing is a plus.
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Old 06-29-2005, 07:57 PM   #88
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That is an interesting point you bring up Cain....

How many choices are out there for 4wd fronts?? 2 maybe 3... All I can think of is Holeshots and Tapers. If they stopped making ifmar pins then I believe that 2 choices is all we have.

Without a 'spec' rule this allows for people to cut down rear buggy tires to fit on front 4wd rims..... Alot of confusion in the rule book about this rule, but it is legal to cut down existing rear buggy tires to fit on the front of a buggy. As long as the tire is still used for the same class it was designed for it is legal. The term "Buggy" goes for 4wd and 2wd. This happens to be another reason to the demise of the 'spec' rule.

On another note, I'm curious if Losi ever redesigned the front 4wd wheel to fit within the rules. Last time I checked the mounting bead diameter on them were too tall.

Just some interesting facts.

As far as cost control, I think that if practice was cut to one day of controlled practice, this would alleviate tons of "Costs" for the event in more areas including the amount of tires needed. Hotel, car rental (If you fly), food AND tires needed. On top of that it would be the same for EVERYONE involved as everyone would show up to the event at the same time for practice..... If you go with anymore day's than 1 then it increases the chance for more practice to some then the others. More than likely about 99% of the entrants are going to be there for the one day of practice.

As far as it not being enough time to figure the right tire, well, it is the same for everyone and I don't see how this is an advantage or dis-advantage to anyone. BTW: A driver who's name that appears on the 'spec' tire list of factory drivers is one that gave me this idea.

Last edited by Orange; 06-29-2005 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 06-29-2005, 08:17 PM   #89
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Old 06-29-2005, 08:18 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Welte
But was it blue groove?
LOL, no I do not believe it was "Blue Groove"

Not argueing, Personallly I don't really care what the surface is, racing is racing is racing, to me, no matter the surface.
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