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Old 06-22-2005, 03:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
I agree with the controlled practice.

The problem with tires is the companies that supply them have some pretty lame return policies if any at all. Most hand out motors (in Team Orion's case) are sent in advance and the track pays for what is used and returns what is not used so there is no financial risk involved.

If tire comnpanies would use adopt the same policy there would be no problem. Tracks don't want to get stuck and pay for extra tires that may not even be the best option for their track surface which make them a hard sell.
I agree with the controlled practice as well. The events seem top be getting very long when you add up the amount of practice. Personally, I think there should be 1 day of controlled practice and that is it, start qualifying.... Keep the track closed until the 1 and only day of controlled practice. Just my opinion though.
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Old 06-22-2005, 03:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart
I agree with the controlled practice.

The problem with tires is the companies that supply them have some pretty lame return policies if any at all. Most hand out motors (in Team Orion's case) are sent in advance and the track pays for what is used and returns what is not used so there is no financial risk involved.

If tire comnpanies would use adopt the same policy there would be no problem. Tracks don't want to get stuck and pay for extra tires that may not even be the best option for their track surface which make them a hard sell.
Ahhh I didn't realize that was the case, I agree, totally lame. Can't ROAR mandate that tire manufacturers adopt the same return policies as Orion does for motors? and those companies not willing to do so would be left out....
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Old 06-22-2005, 03:29 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Doug D
Ahhh I didn't realize that was the case, I agree, totally lame. Can't ROAR mandate that tire manufacturers adopt the same return policies as Orion does for motors? and those companies not willing to do so would be left out....

Unfortunately, not at this time. ROAR is working on a total management team venture for nationals in upcoming years. Of course, negotiations will need to start rather quickly.
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Old 06-22-2005, 05:29 PM   #34
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I hate that I have to be the bad guy on this, but spec tires don't belong at the nationals. I've said it 100s of times and the proff what it can do to tires is very visible on-road rubber tire racing. There has been no tire development in the USA from the major tire manufacturers. This is great for Take off since they've cornered the market, but not for the racer. We're still racing on 1 run tires. If they want to make a spec tire, make it an old hard compund one. Then it will "'level" the playing field.

But until it's the same across the board I don't understand it. There's no spec in Nitro off road, carpet indoor, oval, and some others' I've missed. And I see new tire development in those calsses all the time. The nationals are going to be an expensive venture...it's the top of the food chain. If anything consumers should be pushing for cheaper tires and better tires. Instead we support 1-2 run tires.

I know it's technically cheaper for a team not to have to worry about tires, but that's part of racing. Look at the F1 race, 14 teams brought the wrong tires...that's part of the game. Being prepared, knowing what works. Unlike those racing classes we can buy what we race, therefore as a racer if there was a tire that would allow me to win a race I want to know about it. But if it's a handout it's not because it's the best tire...it's because it was chosen. I can't help but thinking of the race in NM where the tires were worn out after 4 minutes. How is that fun? We all run on crappy tires? Even, but not fun and even more of a disadvantage for a local (who has a ice cubes chance in hell for winning).

I'm sorry but I don't agree with Spec at the national level. In club races that's fine, if everybody wants to pick a tire, but even then...all of the places I've seen don't even support that, where it makes sense and may work.
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Old 06-22-2005, 06:15 PM   #35
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DerekB - You make some good points. There is still strategy involved when running a limited set of spec tires. I love the fact that I don't have to worry about what insert/tire to run while attending the nationals. Another positive to spec tires is that racers can start preparing their car set-up for this years on-road nats in FL and not have to spend money on testing combinations of insert/tires. What about when track temp changes? That could mean another combo of insert/tire, so wouldn't this add up?... No specs for foamies because the general tire combo is the same everywhere and tire wear is low.
I think spec rubber tires are a must for on-road, otherwise foamies on pavement would be pretty sweet.......
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Old 06-23-2005, 02:53 AM   #36
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Sorry Derek, I don't really agree with your defense of the open tire rule. If TC tire development was left unchecked we'd end up (again) with the infamous S3 one-run tire/insert/wheel problems that were ended with the RRoC spec tire rules around 2000, IIRC. People spent hundreds of dollars on tires and inserts and wheels for one race (including me), which makes it hard for the average joe to justify the expense, and hard for race teams to send their whole team. Maybe if ROAR went with a factory class (with no spec tire) and a sportsman class (with spec tire) it would be more sensible, but who's claimed that ROAR has been sensible lately? hehe

Scrubb - ROAR is getting shown up because they've washed their hands of the tire mess and now some of the teams have had to come to an independent agreement to decide how to save a little money. And if you think sponsored guys would be happy to be beaten by local racers...
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Old 06-23-2005, 03:10 AM   #37
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Default R/C Madness Tire Suggestions

Here are some of Chris Marcy's suggested tires from the R/C Madness Madtalk forum for those interested.

2wd

Front: Any Ribbed should work
Rear: Losi 7367R, Losi 7368S

4wd

Front: IFMAR Pin
Rear: Losi 7367R

Truck

Front: Proline 8095, Losi Directionals
Rear: Proline 8092-02, Losi 7638R
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Old 06-23-2005, 06:16 AM   #38
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dalfredson,Thanks for the tire list.It's helpful for us who are traveling to the race.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:44 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank McKinney
Sorry Derek, I don't really agree with your defense of the open tire rule. If TC tire development was left unchecked we'd end up (again) with the infamous S3 one-run tire/insert/wheel problems that were ended with the RRoC spec tire rules around 2000, IIRC. People spent hundreds of dollars on tires and inserts and wheels for one race (including me), which makes it hard for the average joe to justify the expense, and hard for race teams to send their whole team. Maybe if ROAR went with a factory class (with no spec tire) and a sportsman class (with spec tire) it would be more sensible, but who's claimed that ROAR has been sensible lately? hehe

Scrubb - ROAR is getting shown up because they've washed their hands of the tire mess and now some of the teams have had to come to an independent agreement to decide how to save a little money. And if you think sponsored guys would be happy to be beaten by local racers...
I hate posting on a few different forums because I forget where I post things. Here's what I posted on or website about what ROAR should do if it wants to cut cost and force better products.

from www.rc411.com
The honest answer for teams is that it's cheaper for them not to have to test and bring tires. The fairness thing is sort of a cop-out because a local will never win, sponsored guys win Nationals, that's why they are there. You want spec, it should be at the stock nats or club level. Force manufacturers to make better products for racing by having to win races. If tires are the #1 item that can win or lose a race then we need to make better ones, and that's by winning or losing races. I hate to keep using on-road, but Take-off made the CS-27 which lasted (track depending 3-5 runs) now we have the RP which last about the same and less at some tracks. Traction, actually the unrealistic level of traction is killing racing.

Take F1 for example they have a rule that says a tire must last qualifying and racing. That is a better rule since that will force tire companies to make a tire that will last, which will reduce traction, less wear, more fun because setup won't be as precise, and lots of things. I feel like I'm alone on this but if tires are an issue the "cost control" side baffles me. At the Reedy race I bought 3 sets of tires for $90 and needed 4 more sets for practice. I don't see how that saved me any money.

Want the real spec tire that saves racers money follow F1 and make it have to be a tire run the entire race (qualifying and mains...or even practive qualifying and mains). Then we'll have tires that don't wear out in 1 run.
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Old 06-23-2005, 10:18 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank McKinney

Scrubb - ROAR is getting shown up because they've washed their hands of the tire mess and now some of the teams have had to come to an independent agreement to decide how to save a little money.
wow...

darn'ed if we do and darn'ed if we don't...


Last edited by Dawn Sanchez; 06-23-2005 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 06-23-2005, 10:25 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez
wow...

darn'ed if you do and darn'ed if you don't.....

LOL
I think long term we're more damned if we do
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Old 06-23-2005, 11:09 AM   #42
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Thats the way I look at it..I have yet to have anyone explain just how their saving me money by making me run one type of tires.At most club races(this would be the tracks that have a spec tire rule)Dont limit how many sets of tires you can run in a day or for the most part enforce any other "cost saving" rules.
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Old 06-23-2005, 11:36 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Sanchez
wow...

darn'ed if we do and darn'ed if we don't...

You can't please everybody all the time.

There are some people that will continue hating ROAR just because it seems to be the thing to do. I don't agree with all the decisions that ROAR makes, but the majority of the rules all make sense. It's amazing how many non-ROAR sanctioned races there are that very closely follow the rules outlined by ROAR.
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Old 06-23-2005, 11:41 AM   #44
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Man this is a big problum in R/C. National or club it seems no one is hapy with any tire rule at all. I say to solve all this we just run no tires . Now is anyone happy.

Personaly I say that spec tires are bad. It keeps the manufactures from needing to test new tires. Also spec tires might ware fast. I want to have the choice of running a long run tire and not a one run just becouse it is spec.

Tires are the NUMBER 1 thing we use to tune our cars let us have a free hand in doing so.

Now I think what the manufactures have done here is great. More often manufactures need to get together for the sake of the industry and not work against each other. If they want it this way than so be it. LET THEM RUN WHAT THEY WANT.
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Old 06-23-2005, 11:59 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay70
It's amazing how many non-ROAR sanctioned races there are that very closely follow the rules outlined by ROAR.
Yes, that is amazing, isn't it? LOL
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