Are 1/8 electric not reliable?
08-28-2013, 05:04 AM
#61
1/8 e-buggies are actually extremely reliable...especially when you run high voltage
we have two 1400kv t8 motor, both two years old and we race the whole year and they are like new (of course we do maintenance)
same thing for the castle mmp esc that we are using now
cheap turnigy batteries for 40$, not a single one puffed yet (yes, we use a good charger and store charge them, LVC at 3,1v, TCS at 96%)
it's all about taking care of your stuff but 1/8 e-buggy are VERY reliable, I don't stop driving and had very few problems overall (1x 1258tg failure, 2x gen1 rx8 unexplained failure, 1x mmp failure under the rain, 2x orange rx receivers..and that's it in 3 years racing with my gf)
if you can run high voltage, it's way better for the electronics
we have two 1400kv t8 motor, both two years old and we race the whole year and they are like new (of course we do maintenance)
same thing for the castle mmp esc that we are using now
cheap turnigy batteries for 40$, not a single one puffed yet (yes, we use a good charger and store charge them, LVC at 3,1v, TCS at 96%)
it's all about taking care of your stuff but 1/8 e-buggy are VERY reliable, I don't stop driving and had very few problems overall (1x 1258tg failure, 2x gen1 rx8 unexplained failure, 1x mmp failure under the rain, 2x orange rx receivers..and that's it in 3 years racing with my gf)
if you can run high voltage, it's way better for the electronics
08-28-2013, 05:49 AM
#62
Originally Posted by Pulse_
1/8 e-buggies are actually extremely reliable...especially when you run high voltage
we have two 1400kv t8 motor, both two years old and we race the whole year and they are like new (of course we do maintenance)
same thing for the castle mmp esc that we are using now
cheap turnigy batteries for 40$, not a single one puffed yet (yes, we use a good charger and store charge them, LVC at 3,1v, TCS at 96%)
it's all about taking care of your stuff but 1/8 e-buggy are VERY reliable, I don't stop driving and had very few problems overall (1x 1258tg failure, 2x gen1 rx8 unexplained failure, 1x mmp failure under the rain, 2x orange rx receivers..and that's it in 3 years racing with my gf)
if you can run high voltage, it's way better for the electronics
we have two 1400kv t8 motor, both two years old and we race the whole year and they are like new (of course we do maintenance)
same thing for the castle mmp esc that we are using now
cheap turnigy batteries for 40$, not a single one puffed yet (yes, we use a good charger and store charge them, LVC at 3,1v, TCS at 96%)
it's all about taking care of your stuff but 1/8 e-buggy are VERY reliable, I don't stop driving and had very few problems overall (1x 1258tg failure, 2x gen1 rx8 unexplained failure, 1x mmp failure under the rain, 2x orange rx receivers..and that's it in 3 years racing with my gf)
if you can run high voltage, it's way better for the electronics
Not like it's going to improve lap times any.
08-28-2013, 05:57 AM
#63
Originally Posted by Zerodefect
You guessed wrong. And your electric bias is obvious. Actually 45min ago I was holding 480vac in my hands so.... I keep the 2 megawatts worth of lights on at hospitals when the power is out so.....
No. Most of our ESC's are nowhere near state of the art. More like state of 10 years ago. And they're built extremely crappy. Poor insulation. Poor fans. Poor vibration resistance. Poor mounting methods. Poor impact protection.
I agree that ESC's are extremely complex and have their work cut out for them. but they're all doing excellent at the complex tasks, it's the simple tasks, noted above, that they completely fail at.
Viper seems to be the only one addressing any of this right now, and their 1st batch didn't work so well. Everyone else has their heads buried in the sand.
Is this your 1st year racing? Deans get weak and may lose contact in the middle of a race. Happens all the time. I change my 4x4's Deans every 4 months if a big race is coming up. Eveything else is hardwired or 4mm internal.
IMO, a servo has a tougher job than an ESC. And they're ain't an ESC on the market anywhere near a Hitec 79XX in reliability. That's all I'm asking for.
No. Most of our ESC's are nowhere near state of the art. More like state of 10 years ago. And they're built extremely crappy. Poor insulation. Poor fans. Poor vibration resistance. Poor mounting methods. Poor impact protection.
I agree that ESC's are extremely complex and have their work cut out for them. but they're all doing excellent at the complex tasks, it's the simple tasks, noted above, that they completely fail at.
Viper seems to be the only one addressing any of this right now, and their 1st batch didn't work so well. Everyone else has their heads buried in the sand.
Is this your 1st year racing? Deans get weak and may lose contact in the middle of a race. Happens all the time. I change my 4x4's Deans every 4 months if a big race is coming up. Eveything else is hardwired or 4mm internal.
IMO, a servo has a tougher job than an ESC. And they're ain't an ESC on the market anywhere near a Hitec 79XX in reliability. That's all I'm asking for.
Viper has done some different things, but I can't say that they make the esc any more reliable. Sensored only running will bite your in the butt since the sensor connectors that Novak picked to be the mandated standard aren't worth $0.02. Potting is an old idea for making things more durable, but it also makes them non-repairable and heavy.
Funny you should mention Hitec as being reliable. My friend had a Hitech servo cost him a national championship when the control board failed in an intermittent fashion during a race. Thought he had radio problems, turned out to be the servo.
The ESC has a much more difficult job than the servo. The servo is only controlling a few watts of power. Most BEC's can only handle about 18W at best. Servos are a simple feedback circuit and are usually protected by a servo saver. ESC's on the other hand, have to control power levels up to 1,500W while constantly being loaded and unloaded as the car leaves the ground. Not only do they have to provide power but they must sink it too or send it back to the battery to provide the braking function. On top of this, they are also providing the radio power, ie servo power.
As far as Deans connectors go, I have been running the same connectors that I bought 9 or 10 years ago without a single failure. This includes use in modified sedans and boats, both of which have higher current demands than 1/8th buggy. The only connectors I have had trouble with are the original Tamiya connectors (Molex type) and some of todays gold bullets (the type with the separate spring cage). I dislike all of the bullets because the piece that provides the spring tension is also the piece that is conducting the current. As springs get hot, they lose their strength and thus they don't provide a good connection. Deans don't suffer from this since the spring piece is separate from the actual current conductor. Likewise, Sermos don't suffer from it either but you have to buy the 45A contacts and not the 15A ones that are sold in the hobby industry.
08-28-2013, 06:07 AM
#64
Originally Posted by Rockthecatbox21
And people will bi*** about it twice as much no matter how low a Kv your run. Some folks that have tons of experience in this hobby baffle me when they automatically think higher cells equals faster. They don't get the whole low Kv with it thing. I'd like to run 6s in e-truggy next year, but i can just see people whining about it. I might just run it and not tell anyone to avoid drama. Not like it's going to improve lap times any.
Not like it's going to improve lap times any.it's that simple
08-28-2013, 06:28 AM
#66
Originally Posted by kufman
Yes I am biased to electric and have been for the last 30 years that I have been running them. By the way, 2MW is rather weak if you want to get into that pissing match.
Viper has done some different things, but I can't say that they make the esc any more reliable. Sensored only running will bite your in the butt since the sensor connectors that Novak picked to be the mandated standard aren't worth $0.02. Potting is an old idea for making things more durable, but it also makes them non-repairable and heavy.
Funny you should mention Hitec as being reliable. My friend had a Hitech servo cost him a national championship when the control board failed in an intermittent fashion during a race. Thought he had radio problems, turned out to be the servo.
The ESC has a much more difficult job than the servo. The servo is only controlling a few watts of power. Most BEC's can only handle about 18W at best. Servos are a simple feedback circuit and are usually protected by a servo saver. ESC's on the other hand, have to control power levels up to 1,500W while constantly being loaded and unloaded as the car leaves the ground. Not only do they have to provide power but they must sink it too or send it back to the battery to provide the braking function. On top of this, they are also providing the radio power, ie servo power.
As far as Deans connectors go, I have been running the same connectors that I bought 9 or 10 years ago without a single failure. This includes use in modified sedans and boats, both of which have higher current demands than 1/8th buggy. The only connectors I have had trouble with are the original Tamiya connectors (Molex type) and some of todays gold bullets (the type with the separate spring cage). I dislike all of the bullets because the piece that provides the spring tension is also the piece that is conducting the current. As springs get hot, they lose their strength and thus they don't provide a good connection. Deans don't suffer from this since the spring piece is separate from the actual current conductor. Likewise, Sermos don't suffer from it either but you have to buy the 45A contacts and not the 15A ones that are sold in the hobby industry.
Viper has done some different things, but I can't say that they make the esc any more reliable. Sensored only running will bite your in the butt since the sensor connectors that Novak picked to be the mandated standard aren't worth $0.02. Potting is an old idea for making things more durable, but it also makes them non-repairable and heavy.
Funny you should mention Hitec as being reliable. My friend had a Hitech servo cost him a national championship when the control board failed in an intermittent fashion during a race. Thought he had radio problems, turned out to be the servo.
The ESC has a much more difficult job than the servo. The servo is only controlling a few watts of power. Most BEC's can only handle about 18W at best. Servos are a simple feedback circuit and are usually protected by a servo saver. ESC's on the other hand, have to control power levels up to 1,500W while constantly being loaded and unloaded as the car leaves the ground. Not only do they have to provide power but they must sink it too or send it back to the battery to provide the braking function. On top of this, they are also providing the radio power, ie servo power.
As far as Deans connectors go, I have been running the same connectors that I bought 9 or 10 years ago without a single failure. This includes use in modified sedans and boats, both of which have higher current demands than 1/8th buggy. The only connectors I have had trouble with are the original Tamiya connectors (Molex type) and some of todays gold bullets (the type with the separate spring cage). I dislike all of the bullets because the piece that provides the spring tension is also the piece that is conducting the current. As springs get hot, they lose their strength and thus they don't provide a good connection. Deans don't suffer from this since the spring piece is separate from the actual current conductor. Likewise, Sermos don't suffer from it either but you have to buy the 45A contacts and not the 15A ones that are sold in the hobby industry.
We've had some Deans bars get loose in the plastic and fail. Sometimes the bars get so polished that they don't connect so well either. usually tugging them apart works for a while. I just replace them. As long as they're new, they're reliable.
08-28-2013, 06:33 AM
#67
Originally Posted by Rockthecatbox21
And people will bi*** about it twice as much no matter how low a Kv your run. Some folks that have tons of experience in this hobby baffle me when they automatically think higher cells equals faster. They don't get the whole low Kv with it thing. I'd like to run 6s in e-truggy next year, but i can just see people whining about it. I might just run it and not tell anyone to avoid drama. Not like it's going to improve lap times any.
Not like it's going to improve lap times any.Ebuggy is strictly OPEN motor and battery where I'm at. Only the ROAR events adhere to 4s limits.
I run a 2000kv truggy motor in my buggy. Noone ever raised an eyebrow.
Even our nitro class is OPEN on club days. Want to run a .28 and truggy tank in buggy? No problemo.
Our bigger races use .21 and fuel tank rules though (If your a fast guy).
08-28-2013, 06:38 AM
#68
Some of the best races I've watched were nitro vs BL. What a fight lol. To me, in the end, it's all about having fun.
08-28-2013, 07:31 AM
#69
Originally Posted by Zerodefect
Drama? Someone needs pimp slapped at you tracks.
Ebuggy is strictly OPEN motor and battery where I'm at. Only the ROAR events adhere to 4s limits.
I run a 2000kv truggy motor in my buggy. Noone ever raised an eyebrow.
Even our nitro class is OPEN on club days. Want to run a .28 and truggy tank in buggy? No problemo.
Our bigger races use .21 and fuel tank rules though (If your a fast guy).
Ebuggy is strictly OPEN motor and battery where I'm at. Only the ROAR events adhere to 4s limits.
I run a 2000kv truggy motor in my buggy. Noone ever raised an eyebrow.
Even our nitro class is OPEN on club days. Want to run a .28 and truggy tank in buggy? No problemo.
Our bigger races use .21 and fuel tank rules though (If your a fast guy).
08-28-2013, 08:04 AM
#70
Electric 8th scale is way more reliable than it used to be. Ask any of us who were the early adopters how things were in 2006 - 2008 when we used frankenmodiefied ESCs and Neu motors. A car going nuclear into a mushroom cloud due to ESC failure was pretty much normal at every race. I used to carry three ESCs. One in the car, one as a back up, and one at the manufacturer for repair.
I haven't had a catostrophic failure in like 3 year with my cars, nor have I had a DNF due to any kind of electronic failure in that time either.
I think one of the things that has helped is that ESC manufacturers have finally worked out the kinks and designs so the boards can take the abuse. Secondly, car designers have started moving the ESC out of the rear of the buggy or elevating it so that the shock isn't so abusive.
I noticed failures decreasing dramatically when I switched over to the Tekno kits and EB48 because the ESC is mounted in the front of the car. Truggies also tended not to fail as much either in my experience since the larger tires cushioned the blows better.
Batteries are also exponentially better and able to supply the current needs as well. We used 10c packs early on. I recall temping some lipos a 150 degrees.
Finally, since there are full heats of ebuggy, we no longer are trying to squeeze every minute of run time out of the setups. Making 10 minutes is a piece of cake. Wait till you need to run a 20 minute truggy A main on a track with 200 foot straights or try to run 25 minutes or 30 minutes.
Overall, the equipment is better and we aren't required to push it as hard which makes for much more reliable cars.
I haven't had a catostrophic failure in like 3 year with my cars, nor have I had a DNF due to any kind of electronic failure in that time either.
I think one of the things that has helped is that ESC manufacturers have finally worked out the kinks and designs so the boards can take the abuse. Secondly, car designers have started moving the ESC out of the rear of the buggy or elevating it so that the shock isn't so abusive.
I noticed failures decreasing dramatically when I switched over to the Tekno kits and EB48 because the ESC is mounted in the front of the car. Truggies also tended not to fail as much either in my experience since the larger tires cushioned the blows better.
Batteries are also exponentially better and able to supply the current needs as well. We used 10c packs early on. I recall temping some lipos a 150 degrees.
Finally, since there are full heats of ebuggy, we no longer are trying to squeeze every minute of run time out of the setups. Making 10 minutes is a piece of cake. Wait till you need to run a 20 minute truggy A main on a track with 200 foot straights or try to run 25 minutes or 30 minutes.
Overall, the equipment is better and we aren't required to push it as hard which makes for much more reliable cars.
08-28-2013, 08:12 AM
#71
and more driving time 
08-28-2013, 10:23 AM
#72
Suspended
Originally Posted by kufman
If you can't make a Deans plug work, you have some serious issues. I have never had one fail in the 10+ years that I have been using them. This includes using them in boats where the current draw makes 1/8th buggy look weak.
while it appears internal battery posts and 4 or 5mm bullet connectors are the latest rage, it seems people don't realize they're still relying on a connector. they don't cure anything, a connector is a connector is a connector. they SCT as if they're hardwired and they're not. first time one of them has an internal battery connection come lose they'll be singing a different tune.
Last edited by hoonigantoo; 08-28-2013 at 11:03 AM.
08-28-2013, 10:46 AM
#73
EC5 EC5 EC5 EC5 
08-28-2013, 11:00 AM
#74
Originally Posted by Zerodefect
But we never recommend that someone starts with an easy to tune engine like a OS 21xz with a 2090 and a P3 plug on Byrons 30/10.
.
.
If you'd had asked this question 2 years ago I'd have said no they aren't reliable. They are ticking bombs that WILL go up in smoke, it's just a matter of when.
Fast Forward 2 years and after this years ROAR Fuel Nationals in Texas I've now sold my last nitro car and have a full fleet of electrics. My favorite and most prized of these is my E-Serpent. The buggies is built like a tank and Electronics are now more reliable then ever. Are they at 1/10th quality and reliability?? Not even close, but every few months one manufacturer or the other releases and improved model.
Love me some E-Scale
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