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TLR 22 2.0 Race Kit: 1/10 2WD Buggy thread

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TLR 22 2.0 Race Kit: 1/10 2WD Buggy thread

Old 09-17-2013, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Orion_2kTC
I'll try this again...

I know this is the 22 2 thread, but all focus seems to have shifted here.

I'm posting this also in the AE B4.2 thread since I'm still on the fence of my next vehicle.

Has anyone driven a TLR 22 for a while, gone to a AE 4.#, and came back to a TLR 22? If so what were the reasons you switched back? Does anyone drive both and like one VS the other for certain reasons? I plan on running stock buggy for the foreseeable future. My skill level is intermediate.

*Edit* Parts support for AE and Losi are equally good at my LHS.
I've had both..back to tlr for me.the b4.2 was to touchy to drive for me.thing broke all the time.
My last 22 was a very easy driving car and nothing ever broke due to my wrecking.ive had a rear arm break from a practice session and got rear ended by a 4wdsct...
So my answer is the 22... Much easier to drive.parts are alot stronger.
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:45 AM
  #1547  
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This is my first 22 so I can't comment on it yet vs. the B4.2 that I had. I will agree that the B4.2 was sloppy as can be. The big bores were nice, but they really felt like an afterthought on that chassis with having to space them out so they didn't rub, etc. They should have put a little more effort into the B4.2 if you ask me instead of what they put out.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:10 AM
  #1548  
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Originally Posted by darkstar1974
What do you mean the focus has shifted here? We're all talking about 22 2.0's.
The original 22 thread is dead. So I was trying to avoid the stigma of "Well this buggy is brand new so we can't compare it!"
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:12 AM
  #1549  
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Originally Posted by morris
So I got the build all finished.all electronics in..when I went to do the steering EPA I seen that the top of the steering servo horn is hitting on that plastic piece right above it.
Anyone else have this issue?
The 2.0 provides even more clearance than the 1.0 chassis now that the servo area is milled out.

There must be something amiss, as there should be tons of room between the top of the horn and upper bulkhead. Check your servo mount spacers and be sure you have the correct front to back alignment. If so, then be sure the servo didn't slide up on the four servo screws when you installed it - that can happen as well.

At any rate, something isn't right, there should be more than enough to clear the bulkhead.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:18 AM
  #1550  
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Originally Posted by klaymon
Not trying to be a smart ass here, but how about an example? I've honestly never understood how the motor being used would impact other setup parameters. I'm looking to be educated here. Maybe I can learn something.
It is the speed of the car. As explained a little below Stock cars need to carry more corner speed and can in general deal with more steering than a mod car. It has to do with how the cars transfer weight due to corner speeds and acceleration. Setups will generally be close and can work for both speeds but you will tend to want different things out of a setup for stock or modified.

Originally Posted by DanielC.
To generalize (Doesn't always hold true and is really track-dependent):

The focus on stock is maintaining corner speed and agility. Tall gears on the stock motors make it harder to accelerate, so the best way to maintain speed is to not lose it in the corners. In mod, you tend to drive more 'point-and-shoot' and adjust the car accordingly with a less aggressive setup. This is partly why you see racers switching over to mid-motor for stock racing but sticking with RM for mod.

Shorty in stock vs. Stick in mod also follows this logic.
In buggy we tend to run shorty packs all the time unless there was very high bite and the extra weight added stability but for most conditions the team runs short packs in buggy.

RM vs. MM is starting to come down the personal preference and drivers style. Some love it some hate it. The two cars drive different to go fast.

Originally Posted by Rusty Old Fart
Well completed the build on the 22 2.0...nice kit nice improvements on the old 22, My son has nearly finished his as well just mounting the shocks to complete the build. His kit was a complete kit, mine well the kit was missing the 4 screws to mount the servo mounts in place, only 2 of the nylocs to mount the shock mounts on the towers, no screws and washers to mount the servo.

Dam lucky I had an old 22 we were stripping out for the new. Oh and only 3 of the copper washers for the shock caps how could I forget that. No non were stuck together I checked that.

All in all it's slick looking kit can't wait for the rain to clear so we can head to the track. Hasn't rained in 14 weeks the day I received the kits it rained.
Not saying it did not happen but that is a lot of parts missing in one kit. Boxes are weighed once packed to find missing parts and that long list would have raised a red flag. One screw or a brass washer might slip through but all of that should not have made it to your door. A call to horizon CS should fix you up though.

Originally Posted by morris
So I got the build all finished.all electronics in..when I went to do the steering EPA I seen that the top of the steering servo horn is hitting on that plastic piece right above it.
Anyone else have this issue?
What servo arm are you using?
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Orion_2kTC
The original 22 thread is dead. So I was trying to avoid the stigma of "Well this buggy is brand new so we can't compare it!"
Oh I see! I misunderstood ya.

Seems like you're getting some good answers here though.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:29 AM
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Hey guys. I just purchased my first TLR. I race on a very big outdoor track that is usually loomy and low on grip. I was looking on TLRs website for a setup for this condition and couldn't find one. Anyone have a good baseline for this track condition??
Thanks in advance
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:32 AM
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start box stock setup, and pick the common tire for the track and adjust from there. The box stock setup should be good though with a few minor tweaks needed.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by morris
So I got the build all finished.all electronics in..when I went to do the steering EPA I seen that the top of the steering servo horn is hitting on that plastic piece right above it.
Anyone else have this issue?
I ran into this issue on both my 22 and 22 2.0 builds. you need to find the right combination of shims or use zero shims. what shims did you install? what servo are you using?
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Captcha
start box stock setup, and pick the common tire for the track and adjust from there. The box stock setup should be good though with a few minor tweaks needed.
For most any setup you start with, I would recommend removing the spacers on the axles. This is what Frank recommends and also myself and a few others. This will give you the traction out of a turn to make that buggy settle fast.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Casper
It is the speed of the car. As explained a little below Stock cars need to carry more corner speed and can in general deal with more steering than a mod car. It has to do with how the cars transfer weight due to corner speeds and acceleration. Setups will generally be close and can work for both speeds but you will tend to want different things out of a setup for stock or modified.



In buggy we tend to run shorty packs all the time unless there was very high bite and the extra weight added stability but for most conditions the team runs short packs in buggy.

RM vs. MM is starting to come down the personal preference and drivers style. Some love it some hate it. The two cars drive different to go fast.



Not saying it did not happen but that is a lot of parts missing in one kit. Boxes are weighed once packed to find missing parts and that long list would have raised a red flag. One screw or a brass washer might slip through but all of that should not have made it to your door. A call to horizon CS should fix you up though.



What servo arm are you using?
Casper,
I'm using a savox servo.which if I remember correctly its a 25 tooth spline.directions said no servo shims for savox servo.i would take a pic and show you on here.but pc is down and all I have is my phone.
I'm going to double check everything when I get home from work.but I'm thinking everything is built to specs.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:26 AM
  #1557  
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Originally Posted by tfrahm
Well -- Saturday night was the first night out with my new 2.0... I've been racing my trusty old 1.0 since they came out, so it has a couple of years of tweaking and tuning on it, and it is as good as I can get it. My initial impression of racing the 2.0 is very, very "mixed", and it will take some time to explain that...

Our local track (RC Race Barn, Jefferson City, Missouri) is an indoors track with good dirt (mostly clay), and a track area about 100' x 60'. The currently track configuration is about a month old, and the summer heat has taken a toll, with hard packed surface and some ruts/holes, etc. but it is still very "racy". I know it is "only club racing", but the competition is good, and racing is close every week...

Last week I qualified 3rd with the 1.0, but won the A-main, so it is "working" well...

This week, I practiced with the 2.0 to get a feel for it, and overall I liked what I saw. But there were problem areas... I ran the 1.0 in the first round to establish a baseline for comparison. Track was mostly dry, with fluff, and a bit tricky, but I ran well enough to TQ the round (this time would actually have held TQ for the night) - a smooth run, with no problems... For the second round, the track crew blew the fluff off, then watered lightly, so the surface was much improved. I ran the 2.0 in the 2nd round, and one jump was a nightmare! It is not a big jump, but something was terribly wrong - the 2.0 would try to "lawn-dart" about every 3rd lap or so. This jump is in the infield, after a 180 turn - there is a medium "roller", then the launch jump, out to a table top. My 1.0 can roll the roller, then launch and land on the downside of the table top consistently with no problems. The 2.0 (with the same tires, batteries, etc.) was NEVER able to launch and hit the backslope of the tabletop. In fact, the only way to take the jump with the 2.0 was to just "hop" from the launch out to the top of the tabletop, and even than, at least 1 out of 3 times, it would "lawn dart" - the usual throttle control could not "save" it from nosing in..! Even with all the trouble with this one jump, the 2.0 still was capable of better "fast laps", and in the 3rd round of qualifying, it ran a new TQ time (1 second better than my 1st round 1.0's time)... The A-main was a disaster, as the 2.0 failed on this jump close to 1 out of 2 laps...

What did I try? - Well, the intial thought was (and still is) that there was "chassis slap" on the face of the launch jump, causing the buggy to "lawn-dart". For the 3rd round, I raised the ride height to about 25mm front/rear and it seemed better, but still wasn't able to jump like the 1.0 (or my 22T), so for the main I added another mm of ride height, but that didn't help at all in the main - it acted like the chassis was still "slapping" and/or the shocks were bottoming out...?

So - the 2.0 could produce faster laps, but it was impossible to run consistent laps because of the one problem jump. Since the 1.0 and my 22T jump that same jump flawlessly, even a rough track doesn't seem to be "the problem"...

Any advice/suggestions? We have a trophy race coming up on the 21st, and right now I will have to "bench" the 2.0 and run the 1.0 if I can't cure the problem on this jump...
We haven't heard of seen any jumping issues with the 2.0, only improvements. Did you go back to the 1.0 to be sure that is wasn't a deteriorating track condition issue?

Originally Posted by urismo21
With the new kit is there still the need to do the 1mm mod to the rear transmission. If not why?
No, the extra rear grip is not need from our testing.

Originally Posted by celt
Thinking out loud here.

Looking at other new buggy designs to be released soon while I drink my first morning cup of coffee.

What is the technical merit in using a smashed o-ring to seal the small bleeder screw on shocks these days? AE does this, the new Serpent coming soon, uses this method and Tekno as well...

Why not just use a copper shim like TLR introduced. It's the absolutely perfect application for this purpose. The soft copper seals the bleeder surface without any guesswork on how tight to snug the screw down.

I see guys with the o-ring method fight constantly with it...too loose and it leaks or the screw just comes out and too tight and the stupid o-ring compresses and pops out around the seat and doesn't seal anything. Is this a cost issue? Is copper that expensive?

Things that make me go "what were they thinking?"

Note to Frank...leave the copper shim please...
I've been asked for the copper shims by a number of non-TLR drivers....

Originally Posted by darkstar1974
quick question for Frank or anyone else that gets this...

I'm running my 2.0 w shorty packs and ran into an issue yesterday. I believe I have the battery tray set up in shorty position. There are no other holes available to move it any further back towards the tranny. Frank mentions using only 1 spacer pad with this set up and it appears he has this behind the battery. Hence his pack is all the way forward in the setup. I'm trying to run my pack all the way back and need 2 pads to keep it secure. One needs to go in horizontal and one vertical. Makes me think I don't have the battery tray set up properly.

I also found with the pack back and the spacers in front, battery cover doesn't line up with my bullet holes on my battery. To make it work, I would need to dremel out some of the holder, which I really dont want to do. Again, I'm thinking I have something set up wrong, but can't seem to figure it out. Any ideas?
It's not that I only run 1 pad, it's that I only run 1 pad in front, I then "fill" the back until the fit is right. I think I have 3 back there.

We really haven't found a need to run the battery all the way back, especially with a shorty. I'd suggest trying it where I run it, and you can easily move it back another pad to try that.

Originally Posted by hoonigantoo
I was reading on another forum, and someone posted that the 2.0 chassis has an additional 1mm of step-up compared to the 1.0
Can Frank or someone attest to this, or is just another rumor?
This is not correct. The new chassis has ONLY the following changes:

1. Additional pocketing under the servo.
2. 2 additional holes for the new battery tray in the shorty location.
3. 1 additional hole for the M2 x 8mm Front Anti-Squat pivot block.
4. Added TLR laser etching behind servo pocketing.

Everything else is unchanged.

Originally Posted by Graham11
Hi guys, thinking about buying my first 2wd buggy for indoor. I have only ever raced 4wd SC and ebuggy outdoor so this is all new to me but my indoor track is carpet and want to go mid motor config, does this mean I have to buy new shorty pack batteries or will my standard 2s lipos for SC still work?
If you are going to run carpet, you should 100% run the mid motor setup, definitely worthy of pickup up a new pack of 2. For this, you will need either shorty packs, or saddle packs. Saddle packs are preferred for the extra weight, but a shorty pack would be good since you can run it also if you choose to go rear motor to run outdoors next summer.

Originally Posted by darkstar1974
Casper, if you get a second scroll up a take a look at the question I have about shorty pack placement. Specifically the number of spacers needed to run the shorty all the way back and the problem that creates w the battery holder.

Thx
Sorry I wasn't on for a day of two, but we all need a weekend off-line once in a while . I'll always get to all of the questions, and appreciate patience during the process.

Originally Posted by JBrad
Just an idea frank it may be a good idea to edit the first post to answer most of the redundant questions as people are starting to receive their kits.
This is on my list of things to do, hope to get to it soon...lol...

Originally Posted by morris
Built mine last night/today... Only issue was the rear arms didnt move freely..so I just took them back off n removed the .5 shim on each side.fixed the issue.
I did the shocks with 25 rear oil n 27.5 front oil.ive been racing on a super low bite track.so I'm going to try it this way first.
With the shim and arm sitting right against pivot, will break in very quickly, and the "binding" is very slight and will go away after a pack or 2. You'll likely want to add that shim back in after a couple of packs.

Originally Posted by wild gopher
any good 17.5 setups out there yet?
I think the biggest thing you'll see if to move the battery forward, and maybe softer rear springs. In stock, the car isn't entering the turn as fast usually, so you need more roll, AND, you don't have as much power to break the tires free on exit, so a little more on power steering is needed.

Originally Posted by morris
So I got the build all finished.all electronics in..when I went to do the steering EPA I seen that the top of the steering servo horn is hitting on that plastic piece right above it.
Anyone else have this issue?
Your servo needs to be shimmed differently. The servo horn should be rotate through the "high spot" of the arch of the front bulkhead. Adjust your servo shimming until it is there, and you shouldn't have any interference issues.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:46 AM
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Thanks for the answers Frank, sorry for the impatience on my part. So excited to drive this thing!

I completely understand what you're saying about 3 pads in the back and 1 in front. Thanks again for the all the help.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by morris
Casper,
I'm using a savox servo.which if I remember correctly its a 25 tooth spline.directions said no servo shims for savox servo.i would take a pic and show you on here.but pc is down and all I have is my phone.
I'm going to double check everything when I get home from work.but I'm thinking everything is built to specs.
This happened a little on the 1.0. I am not sure if they made more room on the top brace or not but I did not have any clearance issues on my build with S6040 servo and alum arm. It would not be hard to get in there with a dremel and take off a little material to get it to clear if the servo is in the right spot.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:18 AM
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AND we're back!! Thank God!

Damn! I almost got work done today here at the office!


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