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Old 10-31-2014, 10:49 AM   #5686
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According to Torrence, it was designed and built with more "slop" than most other top brand cars, intentionally. The reason being that as you get the chassis broken in the car stays consistent. But... if it is built with slop to begin with then I would imagine this eliminates this chassis break in period? Either way, this car is well designed and drives like no other 4 wheel. It's as aggressive as you want and easily mellowed out. Excellent choice for someone looking to get into 4 wheel buggy.
I would like to add..other team drivers say they didn't notice a difference.

So you have the engineer saying the "slop" is fine.
Team drivers say they cant tell the difference.
The car has already proven itself at the national level and there is this big fuss about some play.

I would love to see if Ty's car has this "slop" and really put this horse to bed.
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Old 10-31-2014, 10:54 AM   #5687
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So I've been thinking of picking up the D413 and have heard several people mention the slop. Is there a fix for it?
I am also concerned with the play in the steering. Before I got my buggy a friend brought his D413 out to the track for me to check out. He has about three races on it and I was shocked on how much play he had in the steering. At first I thought maybe it was just his aggressive driving style beating up the steering (he does not run the servo saver). But after I built my buggy, it has the same amount of play. I don't understand this "it was designed this way" logic. It appears the Ackermann plate rocks on the bushings quite a bit. But I have to say my friends buggy ran very well even with the extra play.
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:03 AM   #5688
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I would like to add..other team drivers say they didn't notice a difference.

So you have the engineer saying the "slop" is fine.
Team drivers say they cant tell the difference.
The car has already proven itself at the national level and there is this big fuss about some play.

I would love to see if Ty's car has this "slop" and really put this horse to bed.

Depends on where the slop is of course all slop is not equal, slop in the rear hubs (not that there is any but just to make a point) can increase or decrease your toe and we all know that going from 3* to 4* or 2* makes a huge difference.

Comparing us mortals to a pro is like comparing apples to oranges! I have seen pros drive with a blown tire fast enough to finish on the podium. We can all agree that Ty is pretty much not human behind a controller IF any of us were that good we would not be on this forum like they arent

I do agree with you though that it has been blown way out of proportion with this car, its simple to use shims. But at least in my opinion the ackerman bar needs to be as free as possible and leave no slop. why have bearings on the steering post and then bushings on the rack? your steering is only going to work as good as its weakest link! If anyone wants to argue about that point try putting bushings in your wheel bearings and see how well that works out for ya
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:04 AM   #5689
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:11 AM   #5690
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I dont get it. it is longer? Why do we need a longer car?
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:14 AM   #5691
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Why?
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:17 AM   #5692
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I wouldn't waste my money on that. Aluminum maybe but not this.
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:32 AM   #5693
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What are you guys doing to eliminate the servo saver?
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Old 10-31-2014, 11:46 AM   #5694
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What are you guys doing to eliminate the servo saver?
You replace it with a servo arm, kit comes with some.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:11 PM   #5695
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Depends on where the slop is of course all slop is not equal, slop in the rear hubs (not that there is any but just to make a point) can increase or decrease your toe and we all know that going from 3* to 4* or 2* makes a huge difference.

Comparing us mortals to a pro is like comparing apples to oranges! I have seen pros drive with a blown tire fast enough to finish on the podium. We can all agree that Ty is pretty much not human behind a controller IF any of us were that good we would not be on this forum like they arent

I do agree with you though that it has been blown way out of proportion with this car, its simple to use shims. But at least in my opinion the ackerman bar needs to be as free as possible and leave no slop. why have bearings on the steering post and then bushings on the rack? your steering is only going to work as good as its weakest link! If anyone wants to argue about that point try putting bushings in your wheel bearings and see how well that works out for ya
I agree with you, but the slop we are talking about doesn't seem to have an effect on the car.

I fully agree with you on the comparison, which was my point. If top tier drivers are not concerned with it… it's a little amusing to see so many throw up their arms and call slop when in fact they cant drive the car at a top tier level such as TY. I mean as of late RM wanted a 2.5 mm shorter chassis for the 22 2.0. 2.5MM and that makes a difference? Really?. So the point is if this "slop" was causing a performance/reliability issue, just like the shock caps did. I would think we would see those mod's done to top tier drivers cars.

Im not going to argue your point. I get it and if that is what people want for peace of mind then they can have at it. I mean you are selling them , but I would like to point out your bushing analogy. Wheels moving at 1000's of RPM's VS a small application of a steering rack is vastly different. Say you did a test where you had two cars on the track and the drivers were not told one had wheel bearings and the other had bushings, just go drive the cars. I would be very surprised if people came back with the result of one car being faster than the other.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:13 PM   #5696
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Does anybody have the part # for the aluminum spacers/washers on the suspension arms ? There is a 3x6 set and a 3x7 set I need to order more and not near my car to measure them.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:18 PM   #5697
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I dont get it. it is longer? Why do we need a longer car?
Ne neither..The term "stretch" does seem like it would be longer.

I dont get some after market companies. I mean they spend the time to build something like this, but don't make a milled shock piston in different sizes that everyone is looking for.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:31 PM   #5698
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So two companies have made a chassis for this car. Something not many of us have been asking for. And yet we still don't have new shock caps or a modified spur. I thought by now someone would have had a new spur and maybe one that would allow other spurs to be interchanged with the center diff. At least RCShox has delivered something that most have asked for in machined pistons so we don't have to drill our own. And then for those that want to remove some slop, there is the new steering bar option.
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Old 10-31-2014, 12:53 PM   #5699
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So two companies have made a chassis for this car. Something not many of us have been asking for. And yet we still don't have new shock caps or a modified spur. I thought by now someone would have had a new spur and maybe one that would allow other spurs to be interchanged with the center diff. At least RCShox has delivered something that most have asked for in machined pistons so we don't have to drill our own. And then for those that want to remove some slop, there is the new steering bar option.
I talked to someone from one of the Aftermarket companies we use. I asked about the alum caps. I was told, that it is not super easy. You have to basically reverse engineer the threads, since they can be non standard. For instance look at the issues propel have getting the serpent or AE cap "perfect". MY AE caps do NOT go on as easy as the OEM caps. Plus, you need a new mount system. Do you clone the AE/TLR or Kyosho mounting. Ty is using Kyosho mounts. What if in 2 months HB releases Plastic or Alum caps using "normal" standoffs. Will they copy AR/TLR/Kyosho or do their own stuff. There is some financial risk in replacing OEM parts. Look at exoteks TLR 22 bell cranks. Now that TLR released theirs, exoteks sales will drop. If TLR had come up with theirs at the same time as Exotek, then Exotek may have sustained financial loses. With proline showing off their caps for a year, some companies were probably waiting to see if Proline made them. I also thought shock caps were a simple think to reproduce, but I am told that is not the case. As far as gears, I know a few people that want to have them made, but the costs of the molds can be pretty high. If you machine them, you need to find the right material and quality machining to make them good.
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Old 10-31-2014, 01:01 PM   #5700
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I agree with you, but the slop we are talking about doesn't seem to have an effect on the car.

I fully agree with you on the comparison, which was my point. If top tier drivers are not concerned with it… it's a little amusing to see so many throw up their arms and call slop when in fact they cant drive the car at a top tier level such as TY. I mean as of late RM wanted a 2.5 mm shorter chassis for the 22 2.0. 2.5MM and that makes a difference? Really?. So the point is if this "slop" was causing a performance/reliability issue, just like the shock

HAHA this is true!

Im not going to argue your point. I get it and if that is what people want for peace of mind then they can have at it. I mean you are selling them , but I would like to point out your bushing analogy. Wheels moving at 1000's of RPM's VS a small application of a steering rack is vastly different. Say you did a test where you had two cars on the track and the drivers were not told one had wheel bearings and the other had bushings, just go drive the cars. I would be very surprised if people came back with the result of one car being faster than the other.
more common than you may think actually, no the rack is not spinning but it is put in very odd angles which is why the bushings wear so fast, this is a case where a bearing will take those angles and not wear out or bind. Faster around the track no, but servos dont make you faster either although a good servo will make the car feel better and this is the same feeling you get with a BB bar. A servo will be faster with less friction!

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Originally Posted by Wildcat1971 View Post
I talked to someone from one of the Aftermarket companies we use. I asked about the alum caps. I was told, that it is not super easy. You have to basically reverse engineer the threads, since they can be non standard. For instance look at the issues propel have getting the serpent or AE cap "perfect". MY AE caps do NOT go on as easy as the OEM caps. Plus, you need a new mount system. Do you clone the AE/TLR or Kyosho mounting. Ty is using Kyosho mounts. What if in 2 months HB releases Plastic or Alum caps using "normal" standoffs. Will they copy AR/TLR/Kyosho or do their own stuff. There is some financial risk in replacing OEM parts. Look at exoteks TLR 22 bell cranks. Now that TLR released theirs, exoteks sales will drop. If TLR had come up with theirs at the same time as Exotek, then Exotek may have sustained financial loses. With proline showing off their caps for a year, some companies were probably waiting to see if Proline made them. I also thought shock caps were a simple think to reproduce, but I am told that is not the case. As far as gears, I know a few people that want to have them made, but the costs of the molds can be pretty high. If you machine them, you need to find the right material and quality machining to make them good.

EXACTLY and the reason i opted not to even bother trying to make them although i could.
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