Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road
Trinity D3.5 17.5 deemed illegal by ROAR >

Trinity D3.5 17.5 deemed illegal by ROAR

Trinity D3.5 17.5 deemed illegal by ROAR

Closed Thread

Old 01-18-2013, 08:43 PM
  #61  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (19)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,846
Trader Rating: 19 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Snafujg View Post
Side question, how it is that the owner of a rival company that makes 17.5 motors is in charge of ROAR? Hmmm.......
This is the elephant in the room that you should all be talking about.
Jonny5 is offline  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:44 PM
  #62  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (154)
 
ta_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,629
Trader Rating: 154 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Stock is far and away the most popular where I race. 4 mains in buggy on club nights where mod is usually 1.



ROAR might not have a choice about this if Trinity brings them to court. By not specifying a tolerance a judge would almost definitely force ROAR to defer to whatever the accepted manufacturing spec of 20awg wire is, which, depending on where the accepted standard is pulled from could be far looser than a racing spec should be.
The wire measurement in the photo posted by Steve Pond in the on-road thread on this subject is way bigger than any standard tolerance on 20 guage wire.
ta_man is online now  
Old 01-18-2013, 08:46 PM
  #63  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (6)
 
Matt Howard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Abilene TX
Posts: 5,952
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Jonny5 View Post
This is the elephant in the room that you should all be talking about.
Ron is not "in charge of ROAR" and if you read the onroad thread he recused himself with anything to do with measuring the Trinity motors just so he wouldn't be accused of anything like this.
Matt Howard is offline  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:08 PM
  #64  
Super Moderator
iTrader: (52)
 
Cpt.America's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,084
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ta_man View Post
The wire measurement in the photo posted by Steve Pond in the on-road thread on this subject is way bigger than any standard tolerance on 20 guage wire.
nobody knows what wire that is. Here is Jeff from Fantom, cracking up a brand new 3.5 shipped two days ago, and the wire gauge is dead smack in the middle of nominal sized 20awg wire. Here is the picture

http://www.rctech.net/forum/11696024-post378.html

Something fishy is going on. I got $10 we see a reversal once all the info comes to light.
Cpt.America is offline  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:31 PM
  #65  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (53)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Belleville, MI
Posts: 4,518
Trader Rating: 53 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
nobody knows what wire that is. Here is Jeff from Fantom, cracking up a brand new 3.5 shipped two days ago, and the wire gauge is dead smack in the middle of nominal sized 20awg wire. Here is the picture

http://www.rctech.net/forum/11696024-post378.html

Something fishy is going on. I got $10 we see a reversal once all the info comes to light.
Glass scale calipers are the absolute worst way to measure anything when we're talking about tolerance ranges within 4 place decimal. Calibrated carbide tipped micrometers with .0001" visual scale or .00005" digital scale and pressure sensitive/spring loaded ratchet should be used, Always!

Last edited by nv529; 01-18-2013 at 09:52 PM.
nv529 is offline  
Old 01-18-2013, 09:41 PM
  #66  
Super Moderator
iTrader: (52)
 
Cpt.America's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,084
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Default

So while they may not be ideal, are you suggesting that these calipers are under measuring by .0003? .0320 is dead smack middle, .0322 is max. .0323 to be illegal.

(i think i got that right)
Cpt.America is offline  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:13 PM
  #67  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (53)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Belleville, MI
Posts: 4,518
Trader Rating: 53 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
So while they may not be ideal, are you suggesting that these calipers are under measuring by .0003? .0320 is dead smack middle, .0322 is max. .0323 to be illegal.

(i think i got that right)
Yes it is possible they can measure undersize the readout of digital calipers can easily be altered in many ways..

1) They are pressure sensitive, you and I can come up with 2 different measurements using the same set of calipers simply by how much pressure is applied to the test piece

2) They can easily be "zeroed out/calibrated" at any location throughout its travel range by simply pressing the "origin" button. What this means is you can make 1.000" block read .2500" by simply measuring a .7500" block and then hit the origin button. Lets say the wire is really .035 and you wanted to trick everyone on the Interwebz into believing the wire is .032" all you'll need is a piece of paper (roughly .003-.004 thick) to "zero out" on then recheck your part which now reads .032

3) Soft and small test pieces should never be measured at the bottom of a caliper near the blade tips. You can easily indent the test piece which will give you a false reading.

4) Digital calipers round to the nearest .0005"

Last edited by nv529; 01-18-2013 at 10:47 PM.
nv529 is offline  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:14 PM
  #68  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (53)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Belleville, MI
Posts: 4,518
Trader Rating: 53 (100%+)
Default

double post
nv529 is offline  
Old 01-18-2013, 10:45 PM
  #69  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
 
orangutanracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 140
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

That caliper is only accurate to +/- .001"
orangutanracer is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 12:51 AM
  #70  
Tech Prophet
 
tc5 man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: levittown pa
Posts: 16,999
Default

Yea i never been to a indoor track at least that has anybody who races in a 1.75 class its usually a open class which i like and it down on cheaters . So there is only driver skill factors really. Heck i ran a 13.5 Sensored Novak motor in my 2wd and ran right with the guys with the bigger motors.


I do agree with a guy on here that said with lipos and brushless motors being out for a long time now why have a stock class. Plus it cuts down on cheating.
tc5 man is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 01:36 AM
  #71  
Tech Addict
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 508
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

So do they use different wire in the rev tech's? Just saying if its a supply issue, every 17.5 from the same manufacture should be out.

I run mod, but hope this gets over turned and they change the rules to have a tolerance because this kind of action can turn a lot of people away from the sport.
Tom87 is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 06:36 AM
  #72  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (154)
 
ta_man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,629
Trader Rating: 154 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Cpt.America View Post
nobody knows what wire that is. Here is Jeff from Fantom, cracking up a brand new 3.5 shipped two days ago, and the wire gauge is dead smack in the middle of nominal sized 20awg wire. Here is the picture

http://www.rctech.net/forum/11696024-post378.html

Something fishy is going on. I got $10 we see a reversal once all the info comes to light.
There (bolded above) is an obviously false statement. The person doing the measurement knows what that wire is. You may chose to believe he is lying about what it is to further some ulterior motive, but to say "nobody knows" is flat wrong.
ta_man is online now  
Old 01-19-2013, 07:06 AM
  #73  
Tech Apprentice
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 80
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Funny thing is people will flock out and buy the D3.5 now for 2 reasons. 1) they know it has an advantage. 2) they might be worried it will be discontinued and they want to 'stock' up.

I am now thinking I am being forced to buy one if I race at a track that allows them just to keep.
neu2this is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 08:11 AM
  #74  
Tech Lord
iTrader: (81)
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,390
Trader Rating: 81 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ta_man View Post
The wire measurement in the photo posted by Steve Pond in the on-road thread on this subject is way bigger than any standard tolerance on 20 guage wire.
I hadn't seen that. I saw Fantom's president's letter that outlines the AWG standard and understand that the rule's wording is pretty flawed but if the wire is outside of the AWG standard tolerance for 20g then Trinity has a problem. Even so, everyone with skin in the game seems pretty surprised and outraged and that could/should have been avoided. This industry isn't strong enough to absorb huge losses.

Do you know about what page that post is in?
Davidka is offline  
Old 01-19-2013, 09:28 AM
  #75  
Super Moderator
iTrader: (52)
 
Cpt.America's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,084
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by ta_man View Post
There (bolded above) is an obviously false statement. The person doing the measurement knows what that wire is. You may chose to believe he is lying about what it is to further some ulterior motive, but to say "nobody knows" is flat wrong.
man, look at these split ends!
Cpt.America is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service