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Trinity D3.5 17.5 deemed illegal by ROAR

Trinity D3.5 17.5 deemed illegal by ROAR

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Old 01-23-2013, 11:21 PM
  #196  
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I listened to the Radio Impound podcast from today because Provetti was supposed to interview. They seemed to have high hopes and Ernie was commited, but they chose to call it off. Although I do understand, I was a little bummed out. But, the good news is, I found alot of their other podcasts to be really awesome. Lots of cool stuff there. Interviews with Deiter, Maifield, Ruona, and plenty more. Glad I found it.
You can link to them on Facebook here
http://www.facebook.com/RadioImpound?ref=stream
I uploaded Stitcher radio on my android phone and listened to cool interviews at work for the last few days. They have even more podcasts on Itunes under "Radio Impound". I still hope Ernie comes on eventually. Anyway, I said I would let everyone know how the podcast went with E-Dog. Check them out though. Makes work fly by lol.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:35 AM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by Adamska27 View Post
This is hardly that cut and dried.
THEY HAD TO MEASURE THE WIRE WITH A BLOODY LASER
It's from that angle we all start to get frustrated. Apparently, the wire was too big by a tolerance well outside that of any decent micrometer, yet they couldn't make sure without a laser device????

This is about ROAR failing shop class and causing us all to buy D3.5's and now something else because they can't write a rule or work a micrometer correctly.

I'm sure my story is the same as everyone else. My buddy got one, I noticed it was fast, I had to buy three, now I have to buy three more something else, and yes, I'm ok with it and the money involved, but don't tell me ROAR didn't screw up at some point here.
There are two organisations that screwed up. ROAR because they didn't have the accurate equipment in the first place and Trinity who supplied a motor with wire outside the allowed maximum.

How, why and what equipment is used is irrelevant and most of the posts in the deleted thread seemed to be whining about how ROAR while ignoring the fact the wire tested was oversize. ROAR should have had the proper equipment in the first place, but then ROAR had the right to expect the products submitted for approval to actually were within specs. I'm sure if the illegal motor was the Hobbywing or Turnigy we wouldn't have so many people trying to defend them.

Ernies argument seems to be that 20awg has a tolerance, but the rules state a specific dimension. He's claiming that the wire has to meet only one of the two dimensions in the rules when ROAR and all the other motor manufacturers seem to have managed to use wire under the actual dimension listed in the rules.

I believe ROAR should be testing random samples as well, as I think has happened here. Considering the sample is sent to ROAR by the manufacturer there's nothing to say that the motor submitted is exactly the same as the ones we buy in the shops, those of us old enough will remember a second hand team drivers motor could be faster than a brand new one from a shop.

A lot of people are just looking at the absolute numbers without considering the size difference relative to the wire. The 6% difference translates to a spec race with a 5000mah battery capacity limit and someone turning up with a 5300mah pack. It's the same percentage difference as the oversize wire, but now it's no longer a tiny unnoticeable difference.

The decision has been made, the D3.5 is banned. How it was tested and why it was tested, or even if Ron Schurr personally tested it, is irrelevant. If it was within the rules it would still be legal.


And for all those keyboard warriors who seem to think they know better or calling for another governing body, well there's nothing stopping any of you putting yourself forwards for the ROAR committee when the elections come up.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:38 AM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post

And for all those keyboard warriors who seem to think they know better or calling for another governing body, well there's nothing stopping any of you putting yourself forwards for the ROAR committee when the elections come up.
Sure there is. We chose not to be members of the oranization because of its idiocracy, like this. I will only pay for ROAR membership if I have to because its a ROAR event. 1 ROAR track out of 50+ in Georgia, North and South Carolina. Wait for it... wait for it.... yes less than 2%. Seems I'm not the only one...

You would think as an organization from a business pespective one could figure that one out. I guess becuase of the US schools producing students that can't count without a calcualtor it must be hard on them. Ohhh they are based one the left coast so we pee'ons on the east coast don't matter. The region doesn't even have a "regional director" And as they say... THERE'S YOUR SIGN.

I wonder what IFMAR has done about this? Here's what we do, lobby to become the branch of IFMAR for the US instead of ROAR. A little competition is always a good way to get stagnant folks off their [email protected]#[email protected]##es.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:17 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
There are two organisations that screwed up. ROAR because they didn't have the accurate equipment in the first place and Trinity who supplied a motor with wire outside the allowed maximum.
Agreed

How, why and what equipment is used is irrelevant and most of the posts in the deleted thread seemed to be whining about how ROAR while ignoring the fact the wire tested was oversize. ROAR should have had the proper equipment in the first place, but then ROAR had the right to expect the products submitted for approval to actually were within specs. I'm sure if the illegal motor was the Hobbywing or Turnigy we wouldn't have so many people trying to defend them.
The equipment being used is a big matter, as this whole thing proves. If you're going to hold your tolerance that tight suddenly after 30 years of using a standard machinists micrometer, I say you can only hold NEW products to your NEW standard, otherwise see moving goalposts post.

Ernies argument seems to be that 20awg has a tolerance, but the rules state a specific dimension. He's claiming that the wire has to meet only one of the two dimensions in the rules when ROAR and all the other motor manufacturers seem to have managed to use wire under the actual dimension listed in the rules.
The dimension listed surprisingly, is the nominal for the wire called for, nominal can not be maximum by definition, I hope we all agree this rule is very poorly written.

I believe ROAR should be testing random samples as well, as I think has happened here. Considering the sample is sent to ROAR by the manufacturer there's nothing to say that the motor submitted is exactly the same as the ones we buy in the shops, those of us old enough will remember a second hand team drivers motor could be faster than a brand new one from a shop.
Another reason I appreciate Ernie. Finally some man. was willing to pull the top 5% and sell it to the public. Do I even have to tell my story of my brand new D3.5 and the way the team Reedy drivers pulled me all over the track with a motor I could never buy no matter how much I spent? We all have been there.

A lot of people are just looking at the absolute numbers without considering the size difference relative to the wire. The 6% difference translates to a spec race with a 5000mah battery capacity limit and someone turning up with a 5300mah pack. It's the same percentage difference as the oversize wire, but now it's no longer a tiny unnoticeable difference.
No, that is not identical, what would be identical is if your battery had 6% more voltage, not capacity, however I wish Howard Cano would chime in on this I'm not certain 6% move voltage = 6% more power

The decision has been made, the D3.5 is banned. How it was tested and why it was tested, or even if Ron Schurr personally tested it, is irrelevant. If it was within the rules it would still be legal.
I don't believe anyone made any unethical decisions. How it was tested is very important anytime a tolerance is the issue. If it is illegal, fine, now tell me why you missed it the first time. Because it's over by less than the accuracy of the micrometer??

And for all those keyboard warriors who seem to think they know better or calling for another governing body, well there's nothing stopping any of you putting yourself forwards for the ROAR committee when the elections come up.
True. However, I and many others have paid these people for their services. Hopefully if I ever decide to run another ROAR event they will accept my used D3.5 as payment.
Again, I'm not into the conspiracy theories, I don't think this is a plot by Ron or Bob or anyone. I do think ROAR took huge steps to grease the squeakiest of the wheels.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:32 AM
  #200  
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And for all those keyboard warriors who seem to think they know better or calling for another governing body, well there's nothing stopping any of you putting yourself forwards for the ROAR committee when the elections come up.
True. However, I and many others have paid these people for their services. Hopefully if I ever decide to run another ROAR event they will accept my used D3.5 as payment.
+1
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:10 AM
  #201  
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I am not a member of roar and I don't own a d3.5 but as a dad that has a 11 yr old that races i'm glad there are rules. Trinity was only doing what every racer whants (pushing the limits)and roar caught it. To say roar was nit picking is wrong thats like playing golf and your ball is an inch out of bounds and saying close enough thats not right its either in or out. My son goes to alot of races that use roar rules(stock buggy,stock sc)and I have no problem following the rules and I would be the first person to get upset if he gets beat by someone cheating. I'm sure trinity will fix the problem and roar will learn from this as well.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:45 AM
  #202  
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ok guys...i am going to close this thread. i am going to put the thread that was in the onroad section in the chat lounge. i am toying with merging the two threads....i am not sure how it would look so i will just close this....

this is not being done because people have caused problems, it is so there is one thread on this, not 3....

i will merge them if people want me to....
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