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Old 11-09-2012, 10:12 AM   #1
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Default new shorty or short lipo rule 8.2.3 from R.O.A.R.

Hideeho
I just ran into the actual wording for roar’s shorty lipo rule. I have a few questions about the way they set it up.

“…Chassis that require a configuration change, and/or a modification to fit a battery of maximum dimensions will not be considered legal …”

Does the 22 or Cougar require permanently attached things to be changed to fit a shorty?

I’m guessing that saddle packs have a separate ruling from stick packs & this rule will not apply to them. If this is the case, this rule doesn’t solve anything. Companies will just design using a saddle pack instead of a shorty pack.

Does this rule apply to on road as well as off road?


For reference, here is the whole rule copied from www.roarracing.com

Rule 8.2.3
All chassis in all electric classes (except those specifically noted) MUST accept batteries up to the maximum dimensions allowed for its application. The legality of a chassis will be determined as presented to technical inspection. Chassis that require a configuration change, and/or a modification to fit a battery of maximum dimensions will not be considered legal, and the racer will be disqualified. Foam blocks/spacers are permitted to secure any size battery in its position, but the aforementioned spacers may never be attached to the chassis. The only exception is 1/8 off-road where it’s common to use two battery packs to achieve the maximum 4S configuration, or to use a single 4S battery, which has a different specification. Only under these circumstances will the fitting of either configuration be considered legal, but the production chassis must still conform to batteries of the maximum allowable dimensions.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:19 AM   #2
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Pretty much a chassis cannot be designed only to use a shorty pack, in one configuration in stock form it must accept a full size pack.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:59 AM   #3
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Hideeho
I agree with your statement, as far as it goes. The section I highlighted above would seem to indicate you can use a shorty in a B4.1 by putting more foam spacers in the molded battery tray, but you cannot use a shorty (or the car is illegal in general?) in a 22 or cougar because the design requires a reconfiguration to allow shorties to be used. It is the "...configuration change..." part that got me to thinking about this. I'm not certain (I don't own either), but I believe both the 22 & Cougar REQUIRE a configuration change to be able to run shorties. I do not believe R.O.A.R. intended to make the 22 or Cougar Illegal for competition, but with the wording they used I do not believe they will be allowed to use shorty lipo's.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:30 AM   #4
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The car must accept either a full size stick pack OR saddle pack with no modifications as their dimensions are spelled out as roar legal packs in the rulebook. Once that is done, you can put whatever size pack you want in with spacers, velcro, etc.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:40 AM   #5
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This was an issue at the recent ROAR nats. The rules intention while not worded as well as it could be is that ANY car configured in ANY way should be able to accept with the removal of spacing foam only be able to accept EITHER a standard 2s full size stick pack OR a saddle pack(think 4wd buggy). There shall be no other components in the car(esc, bracket,etc) in this battery area.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:57 AM   #6
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Wow! More stupid rules for 2wd. Selling mine, this class sucks.

Who deos this rule help? Why is this rule good for the sport? Why can't I use a smaller pack? Is this really a battle worth fighting?

Sounds like this rule was designed to F over the Xfactory guys with shorty packs in thier mid engined SCT's. ROAR disgusts me. A little too strict IMO.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
Wow! More stupid rules for 2wd. Selling mine, this class sucks.

Who deos this rule help? Why is this rule good for the sport?

Sounds like this rule was designed to F over the Xfactory guys with shorty packs in thier mid engined SCT's. ROAR disgusts me.
If the xfactory cars can still accept saddle packs, there's nothing stopping them from using shorties. This rule is perfectly reasonable to prevent chassis from being designed around non-readily available pack dimensions.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krio View Post
If the xfactory cars can still accept saddle packs, there's nothing stopping them from using shorties. This rule is perfectly reasonable to prevent chassis from being designed around non-readily available pack dimensions.
They are all readily available now. When the rule was written Losi/Horizon had a lock on packs of that shape.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:03 PM   #9
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this was why all the losi guys started using long packs before WORLDS (similar rule, however now it is outdated.)
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #10
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just make the rule to extend the race longer. i.e. stock 2wd buggy race for 20-30mins,
then people will stop using shorty packs, and it will keep the motor last longer, not to mention it's much longer fun time.
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:17 PM   #11
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Hideeho
I'm guessing the 22, Cougar, & X-Factory are designed so when set to use shorties either the stick or saddle will also fit. I can't imagine all 3 would have been allowed to race for the last year if not. I'm also guessing this is on a case by case basis for aftermarket mods, but if it is not moded the car should pass with only a cursory glance. The reason I ask this is I have seen a few people build custom battery blocks for the 22 to make using shorties easier & I have thought about doing something like this for my B4.1 to make mounting the ESC in the battery tray easier. Would this be fine for club level, but at big events, with real tech inspections, this would be a "no go"?
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:47 PM   #12
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First off, this rule was added a year ago so this isn't anything new.

http://www.roarracing.com/?p=1438

The rule is pretty simple to understand if you take the time to read it correctly.

The rule is made so that cars are not designed around a specific battery size / shape.

As an example that will make this very clear.....Lets say I was trying to release a car that only accepted a battery that was in the shape of a triangle. This car wouldn't be legal because maximum dimension batteries (AKA long stick packs, or a saddle pack configured front to back or side to side) will not fit my design.......
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Old 11-09-2012, 01:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfast View Post
First off, this rule was added a year ago so this isn't anything new.

http://www.roarracing.com/?p=1438

The rule is pretty simple to understand if you take the time to read it correctly.

The rule is made so that cars are not designed around a specific battery size / shape.

As an example that will make this very clear.....Lets say I was trying to release a car that only accepted a battery that was in the shape of a triangle. This car wouldn't be legal because maximum dimension batteries (AKA long stick packs, or a saddle pack configured front to back or side to side) will not fit my design.......
Hideeho
Yes, it is easy to understand that, but it also says, "The legality of a chassis will be determined as presented to technical inspection." Is this done at the constructor level or at the race level?

For example, a B4.1 will undoubtedly pass the test at the constructor level. If I install solid bulk heads (probably screwed & glued to the chassis) to hold a shorty more firmly in place, would that be legal at a ROAR event? My guess would be no.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waflet View Post
Hideeho
Yes, it is easy to understand that, but it also says, "The legality of a chassis will be determined as presented to technical inspection." Is this done at the constructor level or at the race level?

For example, a B4.1 will undoubtedly pass the test at the constructor level. If I install solid bulk heads (probably screwed & glued to the chassis) to hold a shorty more firmly in place, would that be legal at a ROAR event? My guess would be no.
Every ROAR race you go through tech before taking the track. As long as the car can hold the maximum pack size it would be allowed. All you would have to do is remove your "changes" and the largest dimension pack fits right? If so you get to race, if not you fail and get to go back to your pits and think about what you have done......

You people are making this WAY TO HARD
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:07 PM   #15
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I understand the need for battery standards, so as to say I want more stringent rules. But does mandating 2wd buggies to be designed for three times bigger packs than is ever needed in a race make sense?
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