ROAR VS the spec racing
10-14-2012, 09:20 AM
#46
I like the once a year approval for 17.5 motors. Also i think all big races should be, if you place in the a-main of blinky 17.5 then the following year you should have move up. There is no reason why we should see the same names year after year in the a-main at some of these races.
Club racing should be open motor class and offer novice class for beginners.
Club racing should be open motor class and offer novice class for beginners.
SCT has acted as the "slow" stock the past few years at our tracks and buggy is growing as drivers there move "up" to buggies.
I believe some races have a qualification for stock that a racer must be un-sponsored to enter. That's a good step.
10-14-2012, 01:33 PM
#47
I think some of you missed my point. All the club tracks i go to have open motor class, as most around here don't run stock. Which is fine for club racing.
Lets take roar nationals for example all the racers that placed in the amain this year in all classes, should not be allowed to run stock next year, even if he is not sponsored. They should have to move up to the next class, if that is super stock or mod.
17.5 blinky seems to be the standard at most races for the stock class, so make the next step 13.5 or boosted 17.5.
For me i only get to race about twice a month so i just run my 17.5 and i have fun in the open class. Its not so much of making things more difficult, its more about making sure someone does not get there feelings hurt so they can go home with their little trophy in stock because the most like would not get one if they ran in the class they should be in.
Lets take roar nationals for example all the racers that placed in the amain this year in all classes, should not be allowed to run stock next year, even if he is not sponsored. They should have to move up to the next class, if that is super stock or mod.
17.5 blinky seems to be the standard at most races for the stock class, so make the next step 13.5 or boosted 17.5.
For me i only get to race about twice a month so i just run my 17.5 and i have fun in the open class. Its not so much of making things more difficult, its more about making sure someone does not get there feelings hurt so they can go home with their little trophy in stock because the most like would not get one if they ran in the class they should be in.
10-14-2012, 05:52 PM
#48
I think some of you missed my point. All the club tracks i go to have open motor class, as most around here don't run stock. Which is fine for club racing.
Lets take roar nationals for example all the racers that placed in the amain this year in all classes, should not be allowed to run stock next year, even if he is not sponsored. They should have to move up to the next class, if that is super stock or mod.
17.5 blinky seems to be the standard at most races for the stock class, so make the next step 13.5 or boosted 17.5.
For me i only get to race about twice a month so i just run my 17.5 and i have fun in the open class. Its not so much of making things more difficult, its more about making sure someone does not get there feelings hurt so they can go home with their little trophy in stock because the most like would not get one if they ran in the class they should be in.
Lets take roar nationals for example all the racers that placed in the amain this year in all classes, should not be allowed to run stock next year, even if he is not sponsored. They should have to move up to the next class, if that is super stock or mod.
17.5 blinky seems to be the standard at most races for the stock class, so make the next step 13.5 or boosted 17.5.
For me i only get to race about twice a month so i just run my 17.5 and i have fun in the open class. Its not so much of making things more difficult, its more about making sure someone does not get there feelings hurt so they can go home with their little trophy in stock because the most like would not get one if they ran in the class they should be in.
10-14-2012, 06:14 PM
#49
Both tracks i go to offer a stock class but most buggy guys run mod, there is alway a stock sc class. When either track holds a points series race or a special race they have enough guys show up to have a stock class. Your typical friday or sunday club race most people run open buggy. Both places crcrc and the rc factory run very good programs. This debate will go on for years, it always has.
10-14-2012, 06:28 PM
#50
I think a large lesson here could be taken from onroad USVTA and USGT. Neither of these classes are meant to be the fastest classes on the market, but both provide some of the closest, most exciting racing you will ever see.
Just because the classes are slow doesn't mean it's meant for novice's or rookies. I for one would rather run a slightly slower class with more people and tighter racing where driving/car setup ability means much more than who has the latest program in their speedo. I'll also make the argument that VTA and USGT drivers are as good and sometimes better than their 17.5/mod counterparts, although the fast guys will always be fast, no matter what class you're running.
Either way, the formula of slower with tightly controlled specs seems to be working better than ROAR's. I was just at the USVTA Southern Nats in Tennessee last month, a race centered around USVTA and USGT, and the turnout was better than the ROAR Nats in Joliet this summer.
This being said, IMO, think the skill level of some of the offroad racers (onroad too really) is lacking, and they try to make up for driving errors with more motor, which causes the motor of the week war. I watch drivers at my local offroad track struggle with certain sections, unable to clear certain jumps, and they try changing motors before they try changing their driving line. Seems kinda backwards to me...
Just because the classes are slow doesn't mean it's meant for novice's or rookies. I for one would rather run a slightly slower class with more people and tighter racing where driving/car setup ability means much more than who has the latest program in their speedo. I'll also make the argument that VTA and USGT drivers are as good and sometimes better than their 17.5/mod counterparts, although the fast guys will always be fast, no matter what class you're running.
Either way, the formula of slower with tightly controlled specs seems to be working better than ROAR's. I was just at the USVTA Southern Nats in Tennessee last month, a race centered around USVTA and USGT, and the turnout was better than the ROAR Nats in Joliet this summer.
This being said, IMO, think the skill level of some of the offroad racers (onroad too really) is lacking, and they try to make up for driving errors with more motor, which causes the motor of the week war. I watch drivers at my local offroad track struggle with certain sections, unable to clear certain jumps, and they try changing motors before they try changing their driving line. Seems kinda backwards to me...
10-14-2012, 06:35 PM
#51
X2
I ran Stock SCT when I first got into racing and it is a great class to learn in. Quickly after winning a few races in a row I was pressured into moving up to Mod. I like the added challenge of going slow since it requires you to drive smoother and you can't make up lost time on straightaways as easily.
If Stock SCT was more competitive locally I'd rather run that but sadly I'm going to have to go Mod :/
I ran Stock SCT when I first got into racing and it is a great class to learn in. Quickly after winning a few races in a row I was pressured into moving up to Mod. I like the added challenge of going slow since it requires you to drive smoother and you can't make up lost time on straightaways as easily.
If Stock SCT was more competitive locally I'd rather run that but sadly I'm going to have to go Mod :/
10-14-2012, 06:52 PM
#52
This being said, IMO, think the skill level of some of the offroad racers (onroad too really) is lacking, and they try to make up for driving errors with more motor, which causes the motor of the week war. I watch drivers at my local offroad track struggle with certain sections, unable to clear certain jumps, and they try changing motors before they try changing their driving line. Seems kinda backwards to me...
You are right though, off-roaders get hung up on being able to clear the tough jumps (present company included) only to find it takes about 1/2 the power once we get the driving line dialed and in between we struggle with that big motor everywhere else on the track. Such are the frustrations that drive less skilled mod drivers away to other things.
10-17-2012, 12:43 PM
#53
Tech Master
Another way to limit the spec class is to just allow only one type of esc/motor combo like the SP or the Novak spec system. Everyone will be the same level playing field. Why don't more people just do that instead of fighting over the motor of the week? Even better idea will be to spec the tires and batteries too.
10-17-2012, 12:49 PM
#54
Tech Master
This being said, IMO, think the skill level of some of the offroad racers (onroad too really) is lacking, and they try to make up for driving errors with more motor, which causes the motor of the week war. I watch drivers at my local offroad track struggle with certain sections, unable to clear certain jumps, and they try changing motors before they try changing their driving line. Seems kinda backwards to me...
10-17-2012, 12:59 PM
#55
Another way to limit the spec class is to just allow only one type of esc/motor combo like the SP or the Novak spec system. Everyone will be the same level playing field. Why don't more people just do that instead of fighting over the motor of the week? Even better idea will be to spec the tires and batteries too.
10-17-2012, 01:25 PM
#56
Free markets and competition is what makes the system work, and who sponsors the races. Products get better in terms of performance, reliability and cost because of competition. As things mature all the products that keep up tend to level out as we all push against the same limits of the motors.
Stock racing is more fair and equal right now than it ever has been in the history of RC !
Granted there may be a product now and then that are suspect, but it is usually exposed fairly quickly.
There is a place for spec racing. However it is not the very competitive class of stock across the board. Stock is not a novice or beginner class, it is a racers class with moderate speeds and a different driving style than mod to be fast. It is its own challenge to roll corners and carry speed. Car setup may be even more important in stock then mod to be fast. It is consistency and details instead of point and shoot, hammer down and hang on with ninja reflexes.
Yes a novice driver has little chance against the good guys that likely have a huge investment of time and energy to master the art of RC racing. It is not a magic rotor holding them back. Personally that is what keeps me motivated is getting beat. If I was competitive early on in my career with little effort I would be bored and moved on long ago…
Stock racing is more fair and equal right now than it ever has been in the history of RC !
Granted there may be a product now and then that are suspect, but it is usually exposed fairly quickly.
There is a place for spec racing. However it is not the very competitive class of stock across the board. Stock is not a novice or beginner class, it is a racers class with moderate speeds and a different driving style than mod to be fast. It is its own challenge to roll corners and carry speed. Car setup may be even more important in stock then mod to be fast. It is consistency and details instead of point and shoot, hammer down and hang on with ninja reflexes.
Yes a novice driver has little chance against the good guys that likely have a huge investment of time and energy to master the art of RC racing. It is not a magic rotor holding them back. Personally that is what keeps me motivated is getting beat. If I was competitive early on in my career with little effort I would be bored and moved on long ago…
Last edited by Tekin Prez; 10-17-2012 at 02:15 PM.
10-17-2012, 03:11 PM
#57
I think a large lesson here could be taken from onroad USVTA and USGT. Neither of these classes are meant to be the fastest classes on the market, but both provide some of the closest, most exciting racing you will ever see.
Just because the classes are slow doesn't mean it's meant for novice's or rookies. I for one would rather run a slightly slower class with more people and tighter racing where driving/car setup ability means much more than who has the latest program in their speedo. I'll also make the argument that VTA and USGT drivers are as good and sometimes better than their 17.5/mod counterparts, although the fast guys will always be fast, no matter what class you're running.
Either way, the formula of slower with tightly controlled specs seems to be working better than ROAR's. I was just at the USVTA Southern Nats in Tennessee last month, a race centered around USVTA and USGT, and the turnout was better than the ROAR Nats in Joliet this summer.
This being said, IMO, think the skill level of some of the offroad racers (onroad too really) is lacking, and they try to make up for driving errors with more motor, which causes the motor of the week war. I watch drivers at my local offroad track struggle with certain sections, unable to clear certain jumps, and they try changing motors before they try changing their driving line. Seems kinda backwards to me...
Just because the classes are slow doesn't mean it's meant for novice's or rookies. I for one would rather run a slightly slower class with more people and tighter racing where driving/car setup ability means much more than who has the latest program in their speedo. I'll also make the argument that VTA and USGT drivers are as good and sometimes better than their 17.5/mod counterparts, although the fast guys will always be fast, no matter what class you're running.
Either way, the formula of slower with tightly controlled specs seems to be working better than ROAR's. I was just at the USVTA Southern Nats in Tennessee last month, a race centered around USVTA and USGT, and the turnout was better than the ROAR Nats in Joliet this summer.
This being said, IMO, think the skill level of some of the offroad racers (onroad too really) is lacking, and they try to make up for driving errors with more motor, which causes the motor of the week war. I watch drivers at my local offroad track struggle with certain sections, unable to clear certain jumps, and they try changing motors before they try changing their driving line. Seems kinda backwards to me...
Someone else mentioned it earlier. Why not go by motor rpm output. I have a novak sentry data logger that has a sensor wire tap that can pretty much tell the average rpm put out by each motor. We used it in our vta series to ensure everyone had similar timing set on the motors. It was even used to catch the guy that had 5000 more rpms than the others. Ironically, in the enduro race the day we teched and used it, guess who won. It was the guy who had the lowest maximum rpm. The only thing you have to ensure is they have their epa's maxed out when you check it on the data logger.
10-17-2012, 03:21 PM
#58
+1
Someone else mentioned it earlier. Why not go by motor rpm output. I have a novak sentry data logger that has a sensor wire tap that can pretty much tell the average rpm put out by each motor. We used it in our vta series to ensure everyone had similar timing set on the motors.
Someone else mentioned it earlier. Why not go by motor rpm output. I have a novak sentry data logger that has a sensor wire tap that can pretty much tell the average rpm put out by each motor. We used it in our vta series to ensure everyone had similar timing set on the motors.
10-17-2012, 06:16 PM
#60
I think a good idea for large sanctioned events would be a timed practice to seed everyone. Top 33% in pro, middle 33% in expert, bottom 33% in sportsman. Run what you want motor wise, let the clock sort them out. Re- seed after 2 rounds of qualifying. If you obviously sand bag in qualifying and blow people away in the main (lap times improved by a certain pre determined amount), you get bumped to the next level lowest main. Oh and bump ups.
Randy I really like the one approval per year thing. Good idea.
Randy I really like the one approval per year thing. Good idea.
