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Short Course Bitter Sweet for RC Racing?

Short Course Bitter Sweet for RC Racing?

Old 09-01-2012, 12:23 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by cmross13 View Post
i don't know if clay is killing "off-road", but for me people it IS a happy medium between carpet and moon carters(ha!). i honestly wouldn't race buggy or short course if it was on carpet with wooden jumps(but i would race rally-themed TC's on it, if there was a rule that everyone had to use knobby tires HINT! ). at the same time, i wouldnt race on crater filled dirt path either, unless it was with MTs.

with prepared dirt or clay you get jumps and a rough enough surface to require proper shock tuning, without all the dust, mess, and broken chassis' of a rutted up motocross track
I would race on anything if it were all that was available. However, if the "purists" are going to get huffy about crappy drivers, I feel its justified to call them out on their glass smooth offroad tracks.

There is nothing wrong with a prepared course, as long as it isn't overly prepared. If it looks like all that is missing is a few coats of floor wax, its not an offroad track.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:35 PM
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How could more revenue and more people possibly be bitter-sweet? As noted by another poster, a newcomer to SC can often result in interest in other classes and, again, more revenue.

I'm finally getting back in, after getting out of racing 20 years ago. SC is my "in". I saw this at the local track (the only local track) as the class with the most current participants. I'll likely resurect one of our old original TQ10s and add 2wd buggy to my racing. If I start running that old girl up to her capacity .... a new current buggy may be in line. Of course, I've already been snooping around at 1/8 4wd electric buggies ........
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:36 PM
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To me, off-road has more to do with the variance in altitude versus the track surface. On a good off-road course you get lots, be it through jumps, steps, bumps, or what not.

I wish our local clay track (albeit very nice, thanks SDRC) had a vertical u-turn like most of the carpet tracks seem to..
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by duuuuuuuude View Post
But isn't that what offroad racing is about? Racing on uneven, unstable surfaces? So many of these "pro" offroad rc tracks I see anymore look like moistened stucco colored concrete. If you've got a blue groove on your offroad track, you aren't racing offroad. I'm sure its an absolute dream to drive on though.

Carpet I can understand in a way. For your LHS, its much easier, cleaner, and cheaper to maintain than actual dirt.



Why have loose indoor dirt tracks failed & switched to clay ?
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Why have loose indoor dirt tracks failed & switched to clay ?
Too hard for noobs to tune for? Too many "good" drivers complaining that they can't get a fast line? I really have no idea, I've never driven on an indoor track.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by sffan15 View Post
To me, off-road has more to do with the variance in altitude versus the track surface.
So if they were to install concrete bumps and jumps around the Indianapolis Speedway and have CORR trucks make 50 or so laps, would you consider that offroad racing?
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by vw addict View Post
I race every week and have a BLAST!!! Same with the other racers, or they wouldn't come back week after week right? No cleaning, no maintenance(well maybe a little) Just fun fun fun. Don't see whats so wrong with that. There are still jumps, and a good setup rules. I really don't have the time to tear down and clean two cars every week...
that's fine for you, i'm just saying its not for me. to me, carpet racing is carpet racing, its not off-road, no matter how many jumps you throw at it. there's nothing wrong with it if you like it, that's your thing. i don't like tomatoes, that doesn't meant there's something wrong with them.


Originally Posted by duuuuuuuude View Post
I would race on anything if it were all that was available. However, if the "purists" are going to get huffy about crappy drivers, I feel its justified to call them out on their glass smooth offroad tracks.

There is nothing wrong with a prepared course, as long as it isn't overly prepared. If it looks like all that is missing is a few coats of floor wax, its not an offroad track.
thats fine for you, but i wouldn't race on "anything". if all that was available to me was a pan car oval or scale rock crawler course, i wouldn't be here typing this, because i wouldn't have gotten back into R/C. i dont love all R/C racing, i like what i like.

you can't blame the track surface for "purists" bitching about crappy drivers. everyone on the track is using the same surface. if some hack shows up at a Mod TC race with an old Yokomo drift car and bashes it into everyone and everything, you don't blame the asphalt or carpet or whatever, right?

Last edited by cmross13; 09-01-2012 at 01:06 PM. Reason: left a sentence out lol
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cmross13 View Post
thats fine for you, but i wouldn't race on "anything". if all that was available to me was a pan car oval or scale rock crawler course, i wouldn't be here typing this, because i wouldn't have gotten back into R/C. i dont love all R/C racing, i like what i like.

you can't blame the track surface for "purists" bitching about crappy drivers. if some hack shows up at a Mod TC race with an old Yokomo drift car and bashes it into everyone and everything, you don't blame the asphalt or carpet or whatever, right?
I didn't mean "anything" as literally "anything". But if I were away from home and had the itch to drive a toy around a track, I wouldn't be extremely particular about track surface.

I don't blame the track for the purists, I blame the purists for the track and their "don't crowd me" attitude. It seems to me they are out to do nothing more than turn the absolute cleanest and fastest lap they can and get huffy if someone gets in their way or the track surface is inconsistent. If that is the case, then drop racing all together and do single car time trials. Just one man, his rig, some traction compound, and a smooth as glass track. Sounds like heaven...
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by duuuuuuuude View Post
...I don't blame the track for the purists, I blame the purists for the track...
but again, everyone is using the same track. you just have some people who will constantly complain about bad drivers, rather than just say "hey man you look like your struggling, lets run a few slow laps and try to follow my line". you also have people that will complain about any track surface, be it dirt, clay, asphalt, concrete, carpet, whatever its made of. have you ever been to a slot car track? you have a purpose built surface, there's adhesive on the tires and the track, and people still find something to complain about.

ultimately you can use fly paper tires on a crazy glue track, and people will complain about an off camber turn or an apex in the surface. its their way of saying "i'm the best driver in the world, it couldn't possibly be me that is wrong, it must be the track or the other drivers or the wind" meanwhile everyone else using the exact same track, with the exact same traffic, and the exact same wind.
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cmross13 View Post
but again, everyone is using the same track. you just have some people who will constantly complain about bad drivers, rather than just say "hey man you look like your struggling, lets run a few slow laps and try to follow my line". you also have people that will complain about any track surface, be it dirt, clay, asphalt, concrete, carpet, whatever its made of. have you ever been to a slot car track? you have a purpose built surface, there's adhesive on the tires and the track, and people still find something to complain about.

ultimately you can use fly paper tires on a crazy glue track, and people will complain about an off camber turn or an apex in the surface. its their way of saying "i'm the best driver in the world, it couldn't possibly be me that is wrong, it must be the track or the other drivers or the wind" meanwhile everyone else using the exact same track, with the exact same traffic, and the exact same wind.
I agree 100%, and in a roundabout way, that is my point. Good racing can be had any where at any time with any thing on any surface. Sometimes you'll get bumped and spun, sometimes you'll get stuck behind slower traffic, sometimes you'll misjudge the track and do miserably. That common in every form of racing known to exist on this planet. If you can't deal with that, or know how to circumvent it, then you aren't nearly as good of a driver as you think you are (in general terms, not you specifically).

Having said that, organizers should consider the skill level of the drivers and sort them out accordingly if there are enough to do so. We do not allow young kids to race with us unless they can show that they can actually drive and not kamikaze their rigs around the track. Even with that, there are people that have only one or two races under their belt that mix it up with those that have been doing it for years. It can be frustrating, but those that are actually good drivers still manage to place very well, even if they get rear ended or broadsided or bumped off their lines.

I was a terrible driver when I started and did all the things that everyone complains about. But I learned, I asked for help, and more importantly, I paid attention to how everyone else was driving. If you're just sitting there waiting for a rig to throw back on the track while you are corner marshaling, you are not making the most of your time.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by duuuuuuuude View Post
...organizers should consider the skill level of the drivers and sort them out accordingly if there are enough to do so...If you're just sitting there waiting for a rig to throw back on the track while you are corner marshaling, you are not making the most of your time.
very well said. it is mostly up to the organizers, but the "better" drivers should also be doing their part to help weed out the not-so-great drivers, or sort of mentor them. where i race, the guy who owns the track is always trying to help out the younger drivers and get them to follow a clean racing line. granted, this help often only applies in practice and their nervousness will usually take-over their throttle finger, but some of it sticks.

i am still in the beginners class because i am not skilled enough(my words) to run with the top three drivers at the track. i still spin out sometimes and i still cut the double-double a bit short and bounce onto my roof, but im averaging 1-5 second faster laps than the rest of the "a-main" guys, but that's not good enough in my opinion.

as for the corner marshaling, i do the same thing, and i think its good advice to novice drivers. i watch the lead two and watch their lines and corner entry.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:56 PM
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IMHO, If I could choose between nothing and SC racing, I'd choose SC easily. I definitely prefer any other class and especially hope that the electric truggy class takes off.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Why have loose indoor dirt tracks failed & switched to clay ?
Usually by the 2nd or third month that surface has become more packed. first indoor track we had back in 86 started out that way and by the time they tore it out you might have to water it once a weekand if you ran slicks you were too stuck to the track to make hair pin turns and could quite possibly flip from doing wheelies and break drive pins in axels.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:29 PM
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There has to be a beginner class. It has to be easy to drive, setup, and fun to run. The only way for this hobby to grow is introduce new drivers to the thrill of racing. What better way than SC? Im on my second season of off road in my SC and my driving skill has improved, as well as the competetion. You right that it can be a rough class, but that can happen in any class.

I also race 4wd buggy, its an entire different world. Im not near as fast, and spend most of my time staying out of other people's way. I love to run my buggy as it can do everything that my skill set will allow. But i dont spend a lot of time runnning wheel to wheel with other drivers.

Short course allows that kind of driving, its a bigger car. It's wheels are inside the body. In the hands of a novice its a great demo derby car. Ive been on both side of that kind of driving. Nowaday's at my local track we have great racing in this class. Lil' bumping here and there, side by side racing, but most of the time its clean. On the occasion that its a hack, most drivers will wait. Best part about it, nothing breaks. One thing I realized in short course is no matter if your the hacker or the hackee, its 50/50 as to who ends up on their roof. Ive learned its better to race clean, since there is no guarentee that even if Im racing clean or not. I can still end up getting marshalled

Wouldnt you want to race in a class with new drivers that contact doesn't result in a break. The new guys have to race somewhere and Id rather have them race in a class where contact doesnt result in a DNF. Ive got to a point where Ive learned how to pass, learned to wait, and learned when to race dirty. (in SC) Most of the time I can make a pass without contact, or with some (if needed its SC).

Im not fast enough in my buggy to have a good battle, but Ive had some dandy's in SC. Sometimes its up front sometimes its for 5th. But the back and forth, side by side racing in SC is some of the best racing ive seen.

Keep in mind this evolution has come with some help of my local "fast guys". They have taken the time to let me know what's okay and what's not. How to let them get around me and follow their line, as opposed to being in the way. All of these things have made SC racing at my local track very fast and very competive.
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