Are electric racers being cheated???
08-15-2012, 05:14 PM
#1
Are electric racers being cheated???
First off, let me preface this saying that I am NOT trying to start trouble with track owners, or nitro guys...but heres the deal.
Every track ive been to, its the same price for an electric entry, as it is for a nitro.
E guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, and usually a 6-8 minute main... that equals 16-18 minutes total race time.
Nitro guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, then usually a 20-30 main (depending on if its an "A" or "B" main.
That equals to 30-40 minutes of race time...
Doesnt seem to fair to me...
I understand that the old standard of electric race times were due to brushed motors and NiMh cells...but, i'd venture a guess that 95% of the people racing now are on the lipo/brushless bandwagon.
Which means we are capable of running longer mains. Whats the point of a 5500-6500Mah battery, when you only use a 1/4 of it for a race.
Now, also... electric guys are more inclined to run multiple classes, wheras nitro guys usually seem to be buggy OR truggy.... so in order for an E guy to get more run time, another class, another 15-20 bucks for another 16-18 minutes to race time.
Am I in the wrong in my thinking here?
Every track ive been to, its the same price for an electric entry, as it is for a nitro.
E guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, and usually a 6-8 minute main... that equals 16-18 minutes total race time.
Nitro guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, then usually a 20-30 main (depending on if its an "A" or "B" main.
That equals to 30-40 minutes of race time...
Doesnt seem to fair to me...
I understand that the old standard of electric race times were due to brushed motors and NiMh cells...but, i'd venture a guess that 95% of the people racing now are on the lipo/brushless bandwagon.
Which means we are capable of running longer mains. Whats the point of a 5500-6500Mah battery, when you only use a 1/4 of it for a race.
Now, also... electric guys are more inclined to run multiple classes, wheras nitro guys usually seem to be buggy OR truggy.... so in order for an E guy to get more run time, another class, another 15-20 bucks for another 16-18 minutes to race time.
Am I in the wrong in my thinking here?
08-15-2012, 05:16 PM
#2
I just don't like racing for 6-8 minutes and then marshaling a 20-30 minute nitro main. That blows! 
08-15-2012, 05:20 PM
#3
Bring it up with your track owners. There is nothing RCTech can do for you getting fair prices.
Here in MN nitro classes do cost more, and our electric mains are 10 minutes long. We got the best of both worlds.
Here in MN nitro classes do cost more, and our electric mains are 10 minutes long. We got the best of both worlds.
08-15-2012, 05:24 PM
#4
First off, let me preface this saying that I am NOT trying to start trouble with track owners, or nitro guys...but heres the deal.
Every track ive been to, its the same price for an electric entry, as it is for a nitro.
E guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, and usually a 6-8 minute main... that equals 16-18 minutes total race time.
Nitro guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, then usually a 20-30 main (depending on if its an "A" or "B" main.
That equals to 30-40 minutes of race time...
Doesnt seem to fair to me...
I understand that the old standard of electric race times were due to brushed motors and NiMh cells...but, i'd venture a guess that 95% of the people racing now are on the lipo/brushless bandwagon.
Which means we are capable of running longer mains. Whats the point of a 5500-6500Mah battery, when you only use a 1/4 of it for a race.
Now, also... electric guys are more inclined to run multiple classes, wheras nitro guys usually seem to be buggy OR truggy.... so in order for an E guy to get more run time, another class, another 15-20 bucks for another 16-18 minutes to race time.
Am I in the wrong in my thinking here?
Every track ive been to, its the same price for an electric entry, as it is for a nitro.
E guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, and usually a 6-8 minute main... that equals 16-18 minutes total race time.
Nitro guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, then usually a 20-30 main (depending on if its an "A" or "B" main.
That equals to 30-40 minutes of race time...
Doesnt seem to fair to me...
I understand that the old standard of electric race times were due to brushed motors and NiMh cells...but, i'd venture a guess that 95% of the people racing now are on the lipo/brushless bandwagon.
Which means we are capable of running longer mains. Whats the point of a 5500-6500Mah battery, when you only use a 1/4 of it for a race.
Now, also... electric guys are more inclined to run multiple classes, wheras nitro guys usually seem to be buggy OR truggy.... so in order for an E guy to get more run time, another class, another 15-20 bucks for another 16-18 minutes to race time.
Am I in the wrong in my thinking here?
08-15-2012, 05:35 PM
#5
We came across this scenario in our series. It was mostly 1/8 scale guys with the issue and not so much the sct group. We all run the same length heats. SCT's run 10 minute mains along with E-Buggy. Nitros are 20 minutes. So to fix the E-Buggy guys, we run double A mains. Now everyone gets the same amount of time.
As a side note, maybe your extra money that you think you are being cheated actually goes towards the electricity bill where the nitro guys are not using that part.
If you ask for longer mains be prepared for a couple things. One is overheated speed controls. Most guys in our series feel 10 minutes is plenty without causing a risk to damaging the electronics. Double A mains then causes problems with the race order because you have to give those guys a chance to charge batteries.
I noticed the ROAR Nats for electric does not do bump ups. I think we larger numbers of electric classes this is a good idea because you just can't always get the race orders adjusted to allow everyone enough time to charge if needed.
As a side note, maybe your extra money that you think you are being cheated actually goes towards the electricity bill where the nitro guys are not using that part.
If you ask for longer mains be prepared for a couple things. One is overheated speed controls. Most guys in our series feel 10 minutes is plenty without causing a risk to damaging the electronics. Double A mains then causes problems with the race order because you have to give those guys a chance to charge batteries.
I noticed the ROAR Nats for electric does not do bump ups. I think we larger numbers of electric classes this is a good idea because you just can't always get the race orders adjusted to allow everyone enough time to charge if needed.
08-15-2012, 05:35 PM
#6
I see it as you are paying for racing, not runtime. Each class gets 2 quals and a main. If the car is limited on the runtime, you can't put that on the track.
If there is not nitro guys racing that day, then what? You bump up the price since every has the same run time.
I think it's the nature of the beast. if you want to run long mains, get a nitro car. Or talk to the track for running longer mains for the electric cars as well. I am sure a democratic vote should work at your track. If all electric guys agree to run as long as the battery will last on all electric cars, i am sure the track should not have a problem with that.
If there is not nitro guys racing that day, then what? You bump up the price since every has the same run time.
I think it's the nature of the beast. if you want to run long mains, get a nitro car. Or talk to the track for running longer mains for the electric cars as well. I am sure a democratic vote should work at your track. If all electric guys agree to run as long as the battery will last on all electric cars, i am sure the track should not have a problem with that.
08-15-2012, 05:43 PM
#7
Sounds like your track has it pretty well down pat, I wasnt planning on RCT to get me the deal, just throwing it out to the masses and seeing if I was alone in my thinking.
08-15-2012, 05:59 PM
#8
I'm a President of a club that runs Electric and Nitro race days.
We have a slightly higher price for Nitro. Nitro $15, Electric $10. It was $20 for Nitro, but Nitro numbers were down to the point where we were struggling to get enough marshals. The issue is that everything is more expensive when it comes to Nitro, tyres are a real killer, so bringing the cost down a little was what we needed to do to make it more attractive.
We have a slightly higher price for Nitro. Nitro $15, Electric $10. It was $20 for Nitro, but Nitro numbers were down to the point where we were struggling to get enough marshals. The issue is that everything is more expensive when it comes to Nitro, tyres are a real killer, so bringing the cost down a little was what we needed to do to make it more attractive.
08-15-2012, 07:01 PM
#9
Back in the day, when they thought it up, triple A's were how the race organizers made up for the nitro guys getting a 45min main. IMO triple A's are archaic. Nowadays with lipo and brushless an electric 1/10th scale car can do a 20 min main.
Sure the 4wd sct guys are going to chime in "no we cant!"
But the truth is yes you can. No more 4.5 turn motors. No more gearing it to the moon to peak temp at 5min. No more 2min of warmup. No more hackfest throttle finger. Anyone who ran mod back in the 1200 nicad days knows how to do it. Back then it was a challenge to make 4min, and dumping was always a danger, but we managed to pull it off.
I am waiting for the day we get 20min mains. I've been lucky enough to run a few 10min mains and they were very fun, I wish they would happen more often but I always hear people complain that it makes the race program too long. I'm willing to go to a shorter qualifiing program to make it happen.
Sure the 4wd sct guys are going to chime in "no we cant!"
But the truth is yes you can. No more 4.5 turn motors. No more gearing it to the moon to peak temp at 5min. No more 2min of warmup. No more hackfest throttle finger. Anyone who ran mod back in the 1200 nicad days knows how to do it. Back then it was a challenge to make 4min, and dumping was always a danger, but we managed to pull it off.
I am waiting for the day we get 20min mains. I've been lucky enough to run a few 10min mains and they were very fun, I wish they would happen more often but I always hear people complain that it makes the race program too long. I'm willing to go to a shorter qualifiing program to make it happen.
08-15-2012, 07:04 PM
#10
I'm a President of a club that runs Electric and Nitro race days.
We have a slightly higher price for Nitro. Nitro $15, Electric $10. It was $20 for Nitro, but Nitro numbers were down to the point where we were struggling to get enough marshals. The issue is that everything is more expensive when it comes to Nitro, tyres are a real killer, so bringing the cost down a little was what we needed to do to make it more attractive.
We have a slightly higher price for Nitro. Nitro $15, Electric $10. It was $20 for Nitro, but Nitro numbers were down to the point where we were struggling to get enough marshals. The issue is that everything is more expensive when it comes to Nitro, tyres are a real killer, so bringing the cost down a little was what we needed to do to make it more attractive.
Shoot ever ran a 1/8 scale electric Buggy or Truggy there tuffer on tires than nitro especially soft ones.
08-15-2012, 07:07 PM
#12
I'm a President of a club that runs Electric and Nitro race days.
We have a slightly higher price for Nitro. Nitro $15, Electric $10. It was $20 for Nitro, but Nitro numbers were down to the point where we were struggling to get enough marshals. The issue is that everything is more expensive when it comes to Nitro, tyres are a real killer, so bringing the cost down a little was what we needed to do to make it more attractive.
We have a slightly higher price for Nitro. Nitro $15, Electric $10. It was $20 for Nitro, but Nitro numbers were down to the point where we were struggling to get enough marshals. The issue is that everything is more expensive when it comes to Nitro, tyres are a real killer, so bringing the cost down a little was what we needed to do to make it more attractive.
Shoot ever ran a 1/8 scale electric Buggy or Truggy there tuffer on tires than nitro especially soft ones on hot days.
08-15-2012, 07:14 PM
#14
First off, let me preface this saying that I am NOT trying to start trouble with track owners, or nitro guys...but heres the deal.
Every track ive been to, its the same price for an electric entry, as it is for a nitro.
E guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, and usually a 6-8 minute main... that equals 16-18 minutes total race time.
Nitro guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, then usually a 20-30 main (depending on if its an "A" or "B" main.
That equals to 30-40 minutes of race time...
Doesnt seem to fair to me...
I understand that the old standard of electric race times were due to brushed motors and NiMh cells...but, i'd venture a guess that 95% of the people racing now are on the lipo/brushless bandwagon.
Which means we are capable of running longer mains. Whats the point of a 5500-6500Mah battery, when you only use a 1/4 of it for a race.
Now, also... electric guys are more inclined to run multiple classes, wheras nitro guys usually seem to be buggy OR truggy.... so in order for an E guy to get more run time, another class, another 15-20 bucks for another 16-18 minutes to race time.
Am I in the wrong in my thinking here?
Every track ive been to, its the same price for an electric entry, as it is for a nitro.
E guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, and usually a 6-8 minute main... that equals 16-18 minutes total race time.
Nitro guys get 2, 5 minute qualifiers, then usually a 20-30 main (depending on if its an "A" or "B" main.
That equals to 30-40 minutes of race time...
Doesnt seem to fair to me...
I understand that the old standard of electric race times were due to brushed motors and NiMh cells...but, i'd venture a guess that 95% of the people racing now are on the lipo/brushless bandwagon.
Which means we are capable of running longer mains. Whats the point of a 5500-6500Mah battery, when you only use a 1/4 of it for a race.
Now, also... electric guys are more inclined to run multiple classes, wheras nitro guys usually seem to be buggy OR truggy.... so in order for an E guy to get more run time, another class, another 15-20 bucks for another 16-18 minutes to race time.
Am I in the wrong in my thinking here?
Longer mains just mean I get to pass you a couple more times.
08-15-2012, 07:22 PM
#15
I will be running in the 2013 Force Series here in Fl. They have a great format. Saturday is qualifing for electric and nitro with electric mains to follow after. Electric mains are 12mins long,Yep 12. Sunday Nitro mains as usual. This way no electric guys are marshaling nitro guy and no one is cheated time. Gonna be a reality check for 4x4 sc.