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Old 02-27-2005, 10:45 PM   #16
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I don't think I saw it listed on the 2005 Control Tire press release, but in 2003 in Tampa there was a limit to the amount of "official" tires you could purchase. and have marked by the race officials. The big boys ran there own tires for the practice rounds then ran the "official" tires for qualifying and mains. Oh yea, if you made the A you were allowed one more set, I believe. Chris could probably answer that better then me.

It was not a problem in Tampa the traction was pretty good all around and the tires didn't fall off that much after 2 runs. Reading the one statement above, if the x2000's were losing forward traction after one run, tire management in 4wd might become an issue. Holeshots should hold up good for a few runs event on tracks with high wear.
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Old 02-28-2005, 01:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by nikos2002
I don't think I saw it listed on the 2005 Control Tire press release, but in 2003 in Tampa there was a limit to the amount of "official" tires you could purchase. and have marked by the race officials. The big boys ran there own tires for the practice rounds then ran the "official" tires for qualifying and mains. Oh yea, if you made the A you were allowed one more set, I believe. Chris could probably answer that better then me.

It was not a problem in Tampa the traction was pretty good all around and the tires didn't fall off that much after 2 runs. Reading the one statement above, if the x2000's were losing forward traction after one run, tire management in 4wd might become an issue. Holeshots should hold up good for a few runs event on tracks with high wear.
The grip in florida was pretty good, we were still using a set a run though, its the worlds you would kick your self if you ended up pole in the B by a few 10ths and you ran used rubber... 2nd in the B was bad enough.

Limiting the number of tires allowed is also a good thing imho. a lot of motorsports limit the number of tires allowed to be used during a race meeting.

regarding the IROC thing, controlled tires is a million miles away from IROC rules
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Old 02-28-2005, 02:25 PM   #18
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HVAC, the big problem when you have open tyres is that some manufactures come up with something special. No extra skill on the part of the driver, just being in the right place, with the right team, at the right time. Now if you think this is good for the sport, then we have different views on things. This is how it has been in the past. Anyone remember Yatabe in '95?? If you weren't within the inner sanctum of Yokomo you may as well have not been there.

Chris's point about carrying them is valid. I didn't have to take that many tyres with me to italy last year, but i didn't have anywhere near enough room for what i did take. I left a few at home that were legal, but wisdom told us they wouldn't be needed.
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Old 02-28-2005, 04:41 PM   #19
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I like the control tire simply because you know what tires you are going to need. When my brother and I went to the '93 Worlds in England, we took 256 sets of tires. We counted because we couldn't believe all the tries we packed.

My question is, why doesn't IFMAR control 2wd front tires? Fronts probably have a bigger impact on handling than rears, especially on a blue groove.

The number of sets available should not be limited. If you limit the number of sets, it becomes a strategy game. You have to put in good runs early so the later rounds don't matter. If you had to use all of your new tires just to make the A, you're at a disadvantage in the mains. By limiting the number of sets available, you basically either loose your qualifying drops or your chance to win the main.
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Old 03-01-2005, 08:02 AM   #20
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There is no "control tire" at this years off-road Modified Nationals.

On that note, it wasn't the "regular" racer that has had a problem with this, but instead it has been mfg's. Ask any of them and they will claim that it is very expensive for them to not have a control tire.

IMO though it does make sense for a worlds race. It gets extremely costly for a mfg to have to send the amounts of tires that they will need for their teams to another country.

I totally agree with the "new tire" technology. It has basically disapeared since the rules were put in place. Hence this is part of the reason that the Electric Off-Road Committee recomended to try it as a non handout race this year. This year not being a worlds qualifyier is the perfect oppurtunity to try it. Now the fate of it will be in the racers hands as to if they like the decision or not. Please be vocal about this topic as ROAR wants racers opinions to know how they feel about it. If there is alot of flack over it, then it may go up to a member vote as to it's fate.

As far as On-Road goes, you need to contact the appropriate committee and lobby them to discuss it. Not real sure who exactly needs to be contacted but if you send emails to the ROAR President expressing your concerns, he will forward it to the appropriate committee for topic discussions.

Hope this helps,

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Old 03-01-2005, 08:47 AM   #21
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Racer`s already voted for the control tire....


It`s Roar who is changing the elected rule....


So why vote again ?




Its long pass due for a Factory class......



Then maybe us "regular racer`s", who pay for it all, could afford to attend a Mod Nats.....



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Old 03-01-2005, 08:48 AM   #22
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As far as "special"(Prototype) tire go in off-road?? Do you think that if a sponsored driver that has a special compound is going to be faster. If you look at the Fuel Off-Road Gas Nat's (Which has no control tire) 2 years ago in Oklahoma, Pro-Line had a new compound and most of the team ended up using tires that were already available to the public. Unless they do extensive testing at the track in which they are being held at, the chances of them working are almost 50-50, probably less.

At the Modified Off-Road Nat's last year, the wrong tire was chosen! Plain and simple. The track that held the event had their reasons for this and in all fairness to them, it made sense in the end. With handouts, it is a HUGE finacial burden for them to have to purchase the tires ahead of time. To many times I have heard about a track closing after they held the Nationals AND THEN using this excuse for the reason of it. Well, take away the handouts and this makes it a little easier for them to be able to afford. ROAR as it should be, should be fair to everyone that is a member of it's organization and that includes the tracks that are struggling to stay open for you the racer. In all fairness to the racer, this was the best solution that our committee could come up with.

But in all fairness to that, ROAR allows for "prototype" parts to be used at Modified races, IMO there is no difference to this except for the fact that tires are a bigger part of setup. Racers all have the same setup available to their cars except when there are special parts available to certain people, or even in some instances, complete cars that aren't available to the "regular" guy. ('99 Mod Off-Road Nat's and the XXX for example)

I would like to hear your comments about it if you are reading this! PM me. With that said, I don't really like to read abusive writings, so please write it as if you were writing to yourself and how you would like to be spoken to.

BTW: Handouts are remaining at the Stock Off-Road Nationals as IMO this makes more sense at that level.

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Old 03-01-2005, 09:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wild Cherry
Racer`s already voted for the control tire....


It`s Roar who is changing the elected rule....


So why vote again ?




Its long pass due for a Factory class......



Then maybe us "regular racer`s", who pay for it all, could afford to attend a Mod Nats.....



So who gets to qualify for Worlds? The Factory racer guy or the "regular" guy? Do you just automatically get an "in" because you race in the factory class and the other guy's it is left up in the air? How is that fair? Or how do you make it fair? Really doesn't make sense to me to water down a class because some racers are too intimidated to race against the Factory drivers. Mod Nat's don't fill up as it is and now you want to water down the class? IMO this makes no sense at all.

Stock Nat's are designed for the amateur level. If you feel afraid to compete with the big dogs, then that is the race you should go IMO.

I looked at the racers that were in attendance at Mod Nat's last year and every year I have gone to them. Most of the guy's that were there spent tons of money to go, even with handout tires. Most of the people that were there, I have seen as regulars at just about every independent race there is. If you look at the A Main of the Cactus last year, and the A-Main of the mod nat's last year, you really see alot of the same names in it. So is that because it was affordable to the "regular" guy? C'mon.

How about Fuel off-road Nat's that doesn't have a spec tire? It filled up in 3 day's for this year. Why is that? Was it because it was affordable for those racers?

Making an "affordable" class at the Modified Nationals just sounds funny to me.
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Old 03-01-2005, 12:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Orange
[B

Making an "affordable" class at the Modified Nationals just sounds funny to me. [/B]

How`s the Factory Modiflied Nats sound ?


Thats funny.......




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Old 03-01-2005, 12:50 PM   #25
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I've said it a zillion times and I'll say it again. If ROAR wants to improve their racing program for the local racer they need to do it at the grassroots level with level 1 and 2 races, not the Nationals. The National and World Championship races are not going to be won by a local driver and these should not be the events that are "cost controlled". If a factory team shows up to the World Championships and is unprepared to win, sorry about their luck. If a team shows up with something within the rulebook that will allow them a clear advantage to win? So be it.
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Old 03-01-2005, 01:48 PM   #26
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I totally agree with Aaron.
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Old 03-01-2005, 02:14 PM   #27
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See?! Someone else affiliated with ROAR sees the light!!
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Old 03-01-2005, 08:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Waldron
If a factory team shows up to the World Championships and is unprepared to win, sorry about their luck. If a team shows up with something within the rulebook that will allow them a clear advantage to win? So be it.
What if you're not on a major factory team? What if you are on a major team, but not one of the "A" drivers? For that matter, why should there even be teams? How about a heads up race between Kinwald and Maifield, and we just call it a day?
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Old 03-02-2005, 12:51 AM   #29
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At the least, the handout tire rule was suppose to help attendance by controling costs to the racer.

It seem a good idea.
Thats why it was won the vote .

However, as we have seen, the attendance has not really impoved with this rule. So I`m openminded to any sugestions & changes that would improve this sport.

Like... removing the rule.
Thing is this ,we already know what its would be like with out the rule. I`m talkin custom tire`s only the factory driver`s will have access to.

If only I could believe & see how this would make a impovement towards attendance ....


I`m sure of this, its gona work great in improving tire sales....

Which just mite, get more tire manufactor`s involvement in the Nats program.......
A good thing....
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Last edited by Wild Cherry; 03-02-2005 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 03-02-2005, 01:01 AM   #30
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This is going to come out as completely mean, harsh, a-holeish, whatever you want to call it..but if you're not on a major factory team, odds are you are not going to be competing for the win at the Nationals or Worlds. In the rare cases that a privateer local has been competitive at higher-caliber races, teams usually race to get that racer under their respective wing and help him throughout the event anyway.

Due to their budget, special equipment, on-site engineers, and other resources, the major factory teams are always going to have the upper hand at these races..which is why local racers need to be treated better at a local level.

As long as there are competitive races being held and there is a market for racing-capable cars, there are going to be factory teams. Sometimes team orders exist and what-not, but it usually comes down to the same 10-15 people vying for the win anyway. ROAR needs to stop pretending that they're sticking up for the B-teamers and local racers by making new, experimental rules for the National Championship races.
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