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TLR 22SCT Thread (Check First Page for FAQ & INFO)

Old 05-05-2013, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by sapperc View Post
Well, I know you have all heard and seen this before on this thread, but after 3 1/2 months of infrequent practice sessions (1 - 2 days a week or every other week) and light racing (1 - 2 times a month: three 6-minute heats and an 8-minute A-Main) I have also begun to experience the dreaded sloppy-loose steering rack syndrome. Both the rack and the housing show wear, especially the housing on the left-side outer edges. This situation causes the rack to tilt down and rearward and up and forward with varying degrees of force depending on how fast the steering is thrown left and right while driving. This has begun to cause the rack to bind in the housing, which sometimes causes the truck to go straight instead of turn. Also, I assume that the changing up, down, and tilted attitude of the steering link ends as the rack twists introduces a variable bump-steer condition for which there is no easy cure either.

Everyone's experience is going to be different depending on conditions of use. Even so, less than 4 months of relatively light use is far too short. I take very meticulous care of my RCs. No other part on my 22SCT has failed or broken or or had to be replaced due to wear -- not even tires!

The steering rack is most definitely a weak link. Not necessarily the design. I think there is merit in the rack and housing steering system design that is worth continued development. But I agree with others that have complained that the TLR production parts wear far too rapidily under many ordinary racing conditions. What's needed are more durable materials or perhaps an enhanced redesign of the rack and housing that uses real bearings on all faces instead of plastic friction parts.

In the mean time I'm doing my own testing of available aftermarket options. Today I installed a Driven Productions delrin 22 steering rack in my worn steering housing. It fit so tight front to rear that I had to hone the back-side with fine grit emery cloth. The servo can throw it okay now, but it is still a bit snug. I am hoping it will work-in nicely after 1 - 2 battery runs at the track. It still has too much up and down play on the housing ends due to the worn housing, though. I have a new replacement housing on the way from my favorite online hobby store. For now, this is still better than the old one or even the new spare TLR rack I tried first.

I hope to find a more durable solution and install it once instead of 4 or more times a year. Maybe this hone-to-fit $15 + shipping Driven Productions part the stock plastic housing will be the answer. I'll find out soon enough.

Don't get me wrong. The 22SCT is still a nice RC model. Best 2wd SCT I've ever had. But it's getting more expensive and more tedious to maintain than I anticipated.

I really hope TLR R&D is working this issue with innovation and speed. I'd like to see an improved 22SCT steering system in the near future.
Starting to hear some good things about the Exotek steering rack. It's pricey but sounds like people are liking it. In the short period they have been out anyway.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sapperc View Post
Well, I know you have all heard and seen this before on this thread, but after 3 1/2 months of infrequent practice sessions (1 - 2 days a week or every other week) and light racing (1 - 2 times a month: three 6-minute heats and an 8-minute A-Main) I have also begun to experience the dreaded sloppy-loose steering rack syndrome. Both the rack and the housing show wear, especially the housing on the left-side outer edges. This situation causes the rack to tilt down and rearward and up and forward with varying degrees of force depending on how fast the steering is thrown left and right while driving. This has begun to cause the rack to bind in the housing, which sometimes causes the truck to go straight instead of turn. Also, I assume that the changing up, down, and tilted attitude of the steering link ends as the rack twists introduces a variable bump-steer condition for which there is no easy cure either.

Everyone's experience is going to be different depending on conditions of use. Even so, less than 4 months of relatively light use is far too short. I take very meticulous care of my RCs. No other part on my 22SCT has failed or broken or or had to be replaced due to wear -- not even tires!

The steering rack is most definitely a weak link. Not necessarily the design. I think there is merit in the rack and housing steering system design that is worth continued development. But I agree with others that have complained that the TLR production parts wear far too rapidily under many ordinary racing conditions. What's needed are more durable materials or perhaps an enhanced redesign of the rack and housing that uses real bearings on all faces instead of plastic friction parts.

In the mean time I'm doing my own testing of available aftermarket options. Today I installed a Driven Productions delrin 22 steering rack in my worn steering housing. It fit so tight front to rear that I had to hone the back-side with fine grit emery cloth. The servo can throw it okay now, but it is still a bit snug. I am hoping it will work-in nicely after 1 - 2 battery runs at the track. It still has too much up and down play on the housing ends due to the worn housing, though. I have a new replacement housing on the way from my favorite online hobby store. For now, this is still better than the old one or even the new spare TLR rack I tried first.

I hope to find a more durable solution and install it once instead of 4 or more times a year. Maybe this hone-to-fit $15 + shipping Driven Productions part the stock plastic housing will be the answer. I'll find out soon enough.

Don't get me wrong. The 22SCT is still a nice RC model. Best 2wd SCT I've ever had. But it's getting more expensive and more tedious to maintain than I anticipated.

I really hope TLR R&D is working this issue with innovation and speed. I'd like to see an improved 22SCT steering system in the near future.
I'm really interested in hearing more feedback on the Exotek Bell Crank Steering System they made for the 22 line of vehicles.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by LBR_Frank View Post
Starting to hear some good things about the Exotek steering rack. It's pricey but sounds like people are liking it. In the short period they have been out anyway.
Thanks. Yes, I've seen that on their website. Interesting, but kind of expensive. Also moves the servo back which will alter chassis balance. And apparently requires trimming for clearance and shimming for bump steer. Not exactly a drop-in solution. Seems like an unnecessarily complicated installation as a replacement for a steering system that I really think just needs more durable materials or an enhanced bearing system. Still, it appears to be a well crafted adaption of a sturdy, proven design.

By the way, forgot to mention that the Driven Productions steering rack changed my steering trim significantly to the right. Almost doubled my original trim setting. Any more and I would have had to remove the servo and change the horn mounting position. So, it is not really a drop-in replacement, either. I didn't mind honing the width for precise fit, but I expected correct placement of the servo link ball stud. Toe seems fine, only the servo link ball stud mounting hole seems to be off. I've been disappointed in the fit and finish of other Driven Productions parts in the past, so I was prepared to check everything. It works and has returned the steering to its initial build tightness, minus some end movement due to the worn housing. At least that's my conclusion from bench testing. If it doesn't rain tonight and tomorrow as forecasted, I'll give it a real test at the track .
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:12 AM
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I've finished 2nd at a Canadian championship this weekend. First time on dirt with this truck as I always run mid motor on astro turf. Traction was low, I've use Casper's setup (thanks BTW) but no sway bars and the truck was just awesome. I couln't beat the local faster guy but the truck was on Pace!!! I also put my 22 and 22T in the A main.

I never enjoyed SC before but I love this truck!!!
Attached Thumbnails TLR 22SCT Thread (Check First Page for FAQ & INFO)-img_0200.jpg  

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Old 05-06-2013, 09:08 AM
  #7055  
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Originally Posted by LBR_Frank View Post
Starting to hear some good things about the Exotek steering rack. It's pricey but sounds like people are liking it. In the short period they have been out anyway.
Originally Posted by ScottKelly911 View Post
I'm really interested in hearing more feedback on the Exotek Bell Crank Steering System they made for the 22 line of vehicles.

I have the rack on my 22 buggy and love it! the response it absolutely amazing.
I will put one on my truck soon.
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sapperc View Post
Thanks. Yes, I've seen that on their website. Interesting, but kind of expensive. Also moves the servo back which will alter chassis balance. And apparently requires trimming for clearance and shimming for bump steer. Not exactly a drop-in solution. Seems like an unnecessarily complicated installation as a replacement for a steering system that I really think just needs more durable materials or an enhanced bearing system. Still, it appears to be a well crafted adaption of a sturdy, proven design.

By the way, forgot to mention that the Driven Productions steering rack changed my steering trim significantly to the right. Almost doubled my original trim setting. Any more and I would have had to remove the servo and change the horn mounting position. So, it is not really a drop-in replacement, either. I didn't mind honing the width for precise fit, but I expected correct placement of the servo link ball stud. Toe seems fine, only the servo link ball stud mounting hole seems to be off. I've been disappointed in the fit and finish of other Driven Productions parts in the past, so I was prepared to check everything. It works and has returned the steering to its initial build tightness, minus some end movement due to the worn housing. At least that's my conclusion from bench testing. If it doesn't rain tonight and tomorrow as forecasted, I'll give it a real test at the track .
I dropped mine in in less than 20 mins. I did not have to shim anything for bump steer. Dropped it in and redid my toe and camber and thats it. You have to do very little mods to the bulk head and side chassis guards. If you want a slop free solution then get one. You will not regret it I promise.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Carranza76 View Post
I dropped mine in in less than 20 mins. I did not have to shim anything for bump steer. Dropped it in and redid my toe and camber and thats it. You have to do very little mods to the bulk head and side chassis guards. If you want a slop free solution then get one. You will not regret it I promise.
Thanks for the mini review and tips! Sounds promising. I'm looking forward to your review after you drop one into a 22SCT.

I searched the other 22 series threads, and sadly, there isn't a wealth of real race performance reviews on the Exotek. Probably has to do with the price tag. Its a very expensive option on top of an already pricey racer.

Anyway, I'm taking your endorsement to heart. I'm going to give the DP part a go 'cause I already have it. It will either pan out or not. after that, who knows...
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by metalnut View Post
Dang it.. I'm frustrated. Had a pretty bad day with the 22 today

First, I didn't realize that I overtightened my transmission case, which was causing it to bind. Not sure if I made the mistake prior times too, but definitely ran a motor pretty hot because of it. I have to keep the horizontal screws that keep the case together pretty loose or the gears start to bind. Is this normal?

Second, I lack bottom end. Badly. Last weekend I was trying a RevTech 17.5 motor, but I got it past 200 degrees twice (probably due to the binding transmission). This weekend, I put in a Reedy Sonic 17.5, but also had no bottom end. This is with default 20 degree timing and default 24T/78T gearing. The motor also ran pretty hot. A fellow racer told me to set the timing at 40 degrees, which lowered the temperature a by about 30-40 degrees. No idea why, but I posted that question in the Newbies forum.

In any case, I skipped the races since I couldn't clear a double jump that everyone else in 2WD 17.5 was clearing. I kept landing on it and flipping, so there was no point in trying to race.

Any idea what could be causing such bad bottom end, other than a potentially bad motor? We run a tight hard packed clay track. I thought that the 24/78 gearing and default motor timing would give me the most possible bottom end. The transmission seems to spin freely now, as do the wheels. I had a few people look the car over and nobody saw anything weird, though a few thought I was running the slipper too tight. If anything, I would think that a tight slipper would give me more bottom oomf.

Anyway, I'm rambling now, just frustrated. I spent 9 hours beating my head against this and finally gave up and came home.
Had a similar problem, I found it was all a battery issue (genace 5000/40) Once I upgraded to SMC 6500/70 the motor ran cooler, had more power and could even clear jumps that were not possible before. Strange thing I went up 2 teeth on the pinon and still did not have a heat issue.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:59 AM
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How much do your 22SCTs weigh, without body? My is around 65oz, that's with all electronics, ready to run, wheels and tires mounted. My body is 8.6oz (shoe goo, etc.), so total, before battery, truck is at around 74oz. That's basically the minimum legal weight at my track, but I still have to put in a 2s Lipo. So... I'm running heavy

I bought the truck as a roller, and it came with the TeamSR carbon fiber towers. Does anyone know if those are heavier than stock plastic? I'm assuming "yes". I have a few TLR aluminum parts here and there, but no extra weight.

I am, however, running the Xerun 120a 2.1 ESC, which supposedly weights around 3.7oz without wires. I could switch to a Reventon Pro (1.4oz), but I'm trying to figure out where else my weight is coming from. Thanks!
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:00 AM
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-- double post --
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:19 AM
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The truck was not designed to be at minimum wieght.

You can do a few things to reduce weight like make sure you run the racing rear bumper (no side wings) and take off the side nerf bars. Running an all plastic car helps. Running a short lipo will also help. At the end of the day the truck will be over weight.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:23 AM
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Plus it helps the truck land quicker off jumps
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by gticlay View Post
Plus it helps the truck land quicker off jumps
...and corner better, and settle better, and be all around more stable, and...
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Casper View Post
The truck was not designed to be at minimum wieght.

You can do a few things to reduce weight like make sure you run the racing rear bumper (no side wings) and take off the side nerf bars. Running an all plastic car helps. Running a short lipo will also help. At the end of the day the truck will be over weight.
Hrm.. the reason I became concerned is because my 22 doesn't seem to have as much bottom end and flight distance as other 22SCTs on the track. I'm obviously looking at the motor, etc., but we started weighing the 22SCTs and my was by far the heaviest. Others were coming in right around 75oz with full 2S lipos, but they were running plastic shock towers and Tekin RS ESCs.

So you guys don't think I'm too heavy for a tight track?
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by metalnut View Post
Hrm.. the reason I became concerned is because my 22 doesn't seem to have as much bottom end and flight distance as other 22SCTs on the track. I'm obviously looking at the motor, etc., but we started weighing the 22SCTs and my was by far the heaviest. Others were coming in right around 75oz with full 2S lipos, but they were running plastic shock towers and Tekin RS ESCs.

So you guys don't think I'm too heavy for a tight track?
For stock in general lighter is better as it improves your power to weight ratio and since you can't do much about the power part in stock, you are left with the weight part.

It is a little odd you are that much heavier then the other guys. The RS is a nice small and lightweight ESC.
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