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Tekin RX8 vs Castle MMP for Pro4 4600kv

Tekin RX8 vs Castle MMP for Pro4 4600kv

Old 03-13-2012, 01:02 PM
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Default Tekin RX8 vs Castle MMP for Pro4 4600kv

Obviously the Tekin will run the Tekin Pro4 4600kv motor better, but are there any major reasons as to WHY it runs it better? I've got a Castle MMP + 4 pole 3800kv motor in my Losi SCTE right now running a 15T pinion and it's fast, but no where NEAR as fast as the RX8/4600kv combo.

I tried a Pro4 4600kv motor with my MMP this past weekend at Psycho Nitro Blast as well since that track was HUGE and fast. The MMP/Pro4 Combo still didn't seem as fast as the RX8/Pro4 combo. Is there a reason why? Are there added settings in the RX8 that give it such a huge boost in performance?

I'm curious because I know I want to pickup a Pro4 4600kv, but really wanted to understand the pros to upgrading the ESC as well. I saw a few guys running a MMP/Pro4 combo and while it's still very fast, it didn't appear to have as much as when the RX8 was running the motor instead.

Anyone run a Pro4 with an MMP AND an RX8 that can describe the differences maybe? I know I read somewhere that the RX8 has a current limiter setting....is that the big difference?

Any input would be helpful. I finished 4th in the B-Main at Psycho Nitro Blast running my Castle Combo....so it did quite well considering lap 1 was a hackfest and I came from 18th place on lap 1 all the way back to 4th place....but a little more might have gotten me into the A-Main....or at least away from the hackfest a bit faster ;-)

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Old 03-14-2012, 11:06 PM
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BUMP! I'm also curious
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:43 AM
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+1
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:50 AM
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I'll jump on this bandwagon
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MotoGod
Obviously the Tekin will run the Tekin Pro4 4600kv motor better, but are there any major reasons as to WHY it runs it better? I've got a Castle MMP + 4 pole 3800kv motor in my Losi SCTE right now running a 15T pinion and it's fast, but no where NEAR as fast as the RX8/4600kv combo.

I tried a Pro4 4600kv motor with my MMP this past weekend at Psycho Nitro Blast as well since that track was HUGE and fast. The MMP/Pro4 Combo still didn't seem as fast as the RX8/Pro4 combo. Is there a reason why? Are there added settings in the RX8 that give it such a huge boost in performance?

I'm curious because I know I want to pickup a Pro4 4600kv, but really wanted to understand the pros to upgrading the ESC as well. I saw a few guys running a MMP/Pro4 combo and while it's still very fast, it didn't appear to have as much as when the RX8 was running the motor instead.

Anyone run a Pro4 with an MMP AND an RX8 that can describe the differences maybe? I know I read somewhere that the RX8 has a current limiter setting....is that the big difference?

Any input would be helpful. I finished 4th in the B-Main at Psycho Nitro Blast running my Castle Combo....so it did quite well considering lap 1 was a hackfest and I came from 18th place on lap 1 all the way back to 4th place....but a little more might have gotten me into the A-Main....or at least away from the hackfest a bit faster ;-)

There is always a trade off, when you have and use extra power it will result in mAH burning faster.. period.


That said you are right on in your thinking w/ the rx8 and the current limiter. Keeping mind you actually don't pull the most amps on a motor when you are WOT, it's the stop and go and work up to WOT. So if you can some how limit the amp draw you can still obtain top speed and reduce temps to some extent limit how hard you hit the battery.

BTW the MMP has a 'torque control' that should operate in much the same way if setup properly.. this requires a little more effort as the software has to learn the motor the first time you set it as it is sensorless.

So comparing a 3800kv motor vs 4600kv motor on the same 2s in the same application with all other things being equal the 4600 will be faster. That said you can gear up the 3800 to get closer to the speed of the 4600 and with no limiters this too should be close in overall speed, though the power delivery will be different. (no limiters applied on either)

This is where the Rx8 (or similar esc) comes in with a current limiting feature you can gear up the 4600 (or ANY motor) higher than you normally would be able to and still achive a faster speed and limit how hard it's hitting the battery and the temp on the motor as stated. This does change the power delivery but in offroad its a good thing making it smoother if you will. Both will still be plenty quick but spikes are controlled and limited, again helping keep better temps and save mAH usage on the lipo. So it is totally unfair to compare any motor geared to the max w/ current limiting applied vs a motor with no limiting applied as top end will always be slower in a given class since you have to gear down to keep temps in check.

If you setup your mmp's torque setting dial it back and gear up to 16t you will find much less of a difference btw setups. Keep in mind the % will be different on the mmp than if using the rx8 you will have to play and fine tune. Typical for 4600/rx8 users is 75-80%. When you gear up the 3800 to keep pace you are increasing the amps and torque (torque in a brushless lipo setup is really only limited by your lipo's ability to provide power). So you may need more reduction on the mmp 'torque setting' to acheive a similar result.

That's about the best I can put it hope it helps.

PS most who have the mmp and 4600 tagged together don't bother to gear up and reduce torque, most who have the rx8 always gear up and current limit.

I have all 4, both esc's and both motors. Currently I still primarily run the 3800/mmp and do very well with it.. but for our 1/8 scale track this year, the 4600/rx8 will get most of the duty's. On all the indoor tracks I actually enjoy the 3800/mmp, I run it w/ a 13t pinion and just dial my max speed on my Tx to best fit the track. 4600 isn't really good on smaller & med tracks.. just a personal opinion though.

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Old 03-15-2012, 06:09 AM
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OK so I guess my thinking was fairly correct then. Maybe I just needed confirmation on it. haha

The thing that makes me ponder this is a conversation I had with Larry Ward (Team Losi and former Supercross champ) down at Psycho Nitro Blast. He's running the rx8/Pro4 4600 combo on a 13T pinion with his EPA dialed back to 75% and his truck is ballistic with that setup! I mean all out ballistic. He continued to tell me that Rhonda Drake is running a 12T pinion on the same setup and it's still ballistic.

When I tried the 4600 I tossed a 14T pinion on it to start and it was pretty quick, but no where even remotely close to what I was seeing from other trucks out there. So just trying to do some research before I dump a bunch of money on a new setup and only gain a tint bit.

I love my Castle MMP/3800 setup now, just at this big race....I was at a HUGE disadvantage. Thankfully there were a ton of slower sections where I could make up time, but damn near everyone was walking away from me down the front stretch and I was on a 15T pinion.

My home track is a huge 1/8 scale track with Pro Buggy times @ 43 seconds...and everyone else mid 50s or higher for the most part. I think it's 1200 linear feet down the center line or so. So I'm thinking maybe I pick up a Tekin setup and just keep my Castle setup and swap back and forth based on which track we're planning to hit...or maybe just dial my EPA down on smaller tracks and run a smaller pinion on the 4600.

Either way, I appreciate the input. Without actually having an RX8 handy to do testing with...I didn't want to drop $350 on a setup on a whim, but it does seem to be the hot setup at least for this month. Next month something new and shiny will pop up I'm sure! haha
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:33 AM
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Your kind of comparing apples to oranges imo. Your putting a 1/10 scale rated esc up against a 1/8 scale rated esc. The larger esc is designed to put out more power. I have ran all the combos mentioned above in my SCTE. Started with the MMP/3800 great system especially indoors on a tight course. Then I went to the MMP/4600 had more top end than the 3800 but bottom was pretty close. Than I finally got the RX8 to go with the 4600 and it's just balistic like you said. The RX8 is designed to handle larger loads being an 1/8 scale esc so it can provide all the draw that the pro4 will require to perform at it's best. Even though the SCTE is a 1/10 scale rated truck its coming from an 1/8 scale platform,put it along side 1/8 buggy they are damn near the same size. The MMP is'nt designed for 1/8 scale even though people use it for that. This is all my personal experience and opinion.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MotoGod
OK so I guess my thinking was fairly correct then. Maybe I just needed confirmation on it. haha

The thing that makes me ponder this is a conversation I had with Larry Ward (Team Losi and former Supercross champ) down at Psycho Nitro Blast. He's running the rx8/Pro4 4600 combo on a 13T pinion with his EPA dialed back to 75% and his truck is ballistic with that setup! I mean all out ballistic. He continued to tell me that Rhonda Drake is running a 12T pinion on the same setup and it's still ballistic.

When I tried the 4600 I tossed a 14T pinion on it to start and it was pretty quick, but no where even remotely close to what I was seeing from other trucks out there. So just trying to do some research before I dump a bunch of money on a new setup and only gain a tint bit.

I love my Castle MMP/3800 setup now, just at this big race....I was at a HUGE disadvantage. Thankfully there were a ton of slower sections where I could make up time, but damn near everyone was walking away from me down the front stretch and I was on a 15T pinion.

My home track is a huge 1/8 scale track with Pro Buggy times @ 43 seconds...and everyone else mid 50s or higher for the most part. I think it's 1200 linear feet down the center line or so. So I'm thinking maybe I pick up a Tekin setup and just keep my Castle setup and swap back and forth based on which track we're planning to hit...or maybe just dial my EPA down on smaller tracks and run a smaller pinion on the 4600.

Either way, I appreciate the input. Without actually having an RX8 handy to do testing with...I didn't want to drop $350 on a setup on a whim, but it does seem to be the hot setup at least for this month. Next month something new and shiny will pop up I'm sure! haha
You can change the curve's on each of them to dial in more power quicker but just keep in mind for the same top speed you will need 2t on the 3800 vs the 4600 (approx) and by gearing up it will change the power delivery, this is where that torque control will help with feel and temps on the motor.

PS the rx8 is a 1/8 scale esc, the mmp is a 1/10 esc... again knowing that power in any given brushless motor (sensored or sensorless) is limited for the most part by the power supply (battery/wires/esc etc) you can usually assume the 1/8 scale esc will have the ability to put more power through with less resistance than the 1/10 esc. Drop in a MMM instead of the mmp and you will feel a difference as well. This maybe part of what you were feeling/seeing.

edit:elex just beat me to it ;P
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
PS the rx8 is a 1/8 scale esc, the mmp is a 1/10 esc... again knowing that power in any given brushless motor (sensored or sensorless) is limited for the most part by the power supply (battery/wires/esc etc) you can usually assume the 1/8 scale esc will have the ability to put more power through with less resistance than the 1/10 esc. Drop in a MMM instead of the mmp and you will feel a difference as well. This maybe part of what you were feeling/seeing.

edit:elex just beat me to it ;P[/QUOTE]

Glad to see someone agrees.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:55 AM
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You know...that's a great point. I hadn't even thought about it in that manner. 1/8th scale stuff is rated for a lot more juice and it's ability to dump that juice into the motor as needed will definitely be higher. See...the answer was slapping me in the face the whole time. haha

elex I had the same experience as you with the MMP and Pro4 4600. Top end got a boost but the bottom and mid were about the same, if not a tad lighter. I'm glad I posted this the other day when I was mulling it over in my head.

Decision made....RX8/4600 is the winner!

PS...anyone wanna buy a Castle system? lol
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Old 03-16-2012, 03:58 PM
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I am a huge fan of MMP, only because I could never afford the Tekin RX8 (which is the best out there hands down for your application). Well, I have changed out 4 MMP's now for all Tekin stuff (as I could afford to do so) and NEVER looked back. The tunability of the Tekin software is far superior to that of the Castle stuff.
I still have just (1) MMP left in my SC10 4x4. Started with a Tekin 4.5 550 motor which was fed pleasantly with a 5000 mAh Gens ace battery. Then I went to the PRO4 4600 KV and my MMP just took a dump. Couldn't handle the power draw off that 4600 and the truck flat didnít work at all. Dropped in the PRO4 4000 and runs way better.

Now the skinny of it is I cannot catch the 2 guys ahead of me running Tekin RX8's, and I am at the point where that slight edge they have is all the difference in the world.

Long and short. If you are not on a budget, go TEKIN. Some folks are a long ways away from be out classed my their electronics. If you are a sportsman or not concerned about making the podium every weekend, I can only vouch for the 4000 KV with the Mamba Max working just fine.
Godspeed.



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Old 03-16-2012, 04:37 PM
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Already got my RX8 and Pro4 4600kv ordered. Now I sit back and wait for it to show ;-)
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:30 AM
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I have the rx8 4600 combo and find the 12t pinion to have amazing torque and adequate top end. Previousely ran the 14t and 15t
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:32 AM
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I can tell you what Ronda and Adam both are using for gearing. In most cases they're using a 13-14 tooth depending on the size of the track. Ronda is running the new Pro 4HD and is using a 16T at the moment running at her local tracks.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by elex300
Your kind of comparing apples to oranges imo. Your putting a 1/10 scale rated esc up against a 1/8 scale rated esc. The larger esc is designed to put out more power. I have ran all the combos mentioned above in my SCTE. Started with the MMP/3800 great system especially indoors on a tight course. Then I went to the MMP/4600 had more top end than the 3800 but bottom was pretty close. Than I finally got the RX8 to go with the 4600 and it's just balistic like you said. The RX8 is designed to handle larger loads being an 1/8 scale esc so it can provide all the draw that the pro4 will require to perform at it's best. Even though the SCTE is a 1/10 scale rated truck its coming from an 1/8 scale platform,put it along side 1/8 buggy they are damn near the same size. The MMP is'nt designed for 1/8 scale even though people use it for that. This is all my personal experience and opinion.
+1 WITH THIS GUY^^^
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