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Old 12-01-2004, 07:10 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aaron Waldron
Tony..if killing this thread was your plan, I think it may have backfired..haha
LOL No kidding....

Ok, look. The 18T is a RTR vehicle AIMED at the RTR customer. It's inexpensive and EVERYONE will by one (not literally, but sales will be high). Is it a good product to have? Yes. We will sell alot and, of course, people will race them. BUT, you don't have to be a racer to buy and 'race' one.

Now, a 4wd buggy. Who's gonna buy this??? The 5% of the people that actually RACE R/C cars??? Ok, well, there's design time. There's tooling time. Manufacturing time. Testing time. Possible re-tooling time. Then the release. All that cost ALOT of money. For what. For a class that (in my eyes is unfortunate 'cuz I love it!) really doesn't get many 'racers' racing it? It's not profitable for us to do that.

Now, before I get SERIOUSLY FLAMED for saying that, AE IS in the business to make money. It's not that we DON'T listen to our customers, it's just not in our best interest to pursue this. And, now that the BJ4, Academy, and Durango are available, those three are pretty close to AE vehicles.

I don't really know what else to tell you guys. If we make one, we make one. If we don't, don't hate the company or say we 'don't listen to the customers'. We want to provide our customers with the best product we can....and still stay in business.

Ok. I'm done. Sorry for being long-winded....
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Old 12-02-2004, 10:19 AM   #17
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Tony,
I know what you are saying about the 4wd class, but I think a lot of reason why the class is so small, is the fact that Losi is the only big manufacturer to offer a race worthy buggy. Yokomo and Academy make ones too, but a big, well distributed buggy from AE would help. I know the development could be high, but with the TC4 as the platform, the costs would be less, the BJ4 has shown that. My 2 cents.
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Old 12-03-2004, 04:27 PM   #18
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AE all the way for me. They make what I like to run, and the things are bulletproof!
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Old 12-03-2004, 05:58 PM   #19
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edseb, before losi came out with a 4wd offroad car, everyone was saying if there was a domestic 4wd offroad car, 4wd would make a comeback. Before that, it was dead before people wanted a 4wd car that was easier to work on, before that people wanted a 4wd car that would handle rough tracks better, before that etc. etc.

There is no one thing that will make 4wd comeback. 4wd cars are expensive to buy, run, maintain compared to 2wd and trucks. Their are hard to setup right and wicked to drive when setup right. My favorite car of all time is the Shumacher Bosscat which I got to race at a total of 6 events in 1993. I bought a used Yok in 1995 and never even made it to a big event to race it.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:58 PM   #20
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But times are different now. You're right, they can be expensive, but companies like Academy has shown how to do a cheaper version. 4wd buggies are often easier to drive than 2wd buggies adn if they were widely available and costs low, i think it could be feasible. They have most of the same components, just biggers that RTR touring cars have, so costs could come down. Yeah you're right about he past, but the whole RC Industry is bigger now, so it might be a new time. I hope so at least.
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Old 12-05-2004, 06:59 PM   #21
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The only thing is the current cars BESIDES the losi are hard to get your hands on.

BJ4...wait on a list thats a thousand people long and they are rather expensive but worth it in my opinion.

Academy....Also hard to come by and the wheels have a stupid hex pattern so you have to special order wheels from them.

Durango...rather expensive, and havent heard anything about that except that Associated may have or is considering buying the rights to the design.

If associated got into the game it could possibly boost the class. alot of people are Associated only or losi only guys.

A XXX-4 G Plus can be purchased for 329 and some change. A JRX Pro touring sedan is 349. and a TC4 team kit is 209. and of course the JConcepts BJ 4x4 is around 500.

I belive a team 4wd kit could be produced from associated for around the price of the TC4. And they have the advantage of seeing what needs to be improved upon design wise on the previous cars.
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Old 12-10-2004, 06:16 AM   #22
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Interesting topic. I think I will join in.

As far as AE making a 4wd vehicle, not sure what they are going to do. I think this year in 4wd will be a tell tale sign if AE does anything as far as making a 4wd buggy. If 4wd racing picks up, sales go up, AE will make one. Its not like they got far to go either as far as R&D.

If the BJ4x4 guys can whip something out that is the Stock National Champion, using ALOT of AE parts, I doubt that you really need monster amounts of R & D to get something out there, especially with the resources that AE can pull on versus what the BJ4x4 guys had.

As for the availability of the Academy SB vehicles ( Sport, RTR, and now Pro! ) getting parts and getting the vehicles themselves isn't hard. If in the US, stop by your LHS and ask them to order you the vehicle, parts, etc from MRC. If they won't do it, give Ultimate hobbies a call and have them send you the stuff. Or, call MRC direct, ask for Tim, and he will hook you right up.

I will have the SB Pro in soon, maybe as early as the end of next week and I hope to do a report on it in detail with lots of pics.

As for the wheels, I know of guys who put the B4 rims on the rear. But honestly the wheels that the Academy SB comes with are some of the best I have used. I am not sure what other wheel you would want to be able to use.

Its a shame AE doesn't want to jump into 4wd, but, there are other options out there that are race worthy so don't shy away just because AE is on the fence or on the no side.
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Old 12-10-2004, 08:21 AM   #23
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I got to see an X5 run last night. VERY impressive. If there was one problem it was traction rolling. This thing was on rails.
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Old 12-10-2004, 10:49 AM   #24
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so there is apparently no market for a 4wd buggy according to your research at AE, but everyone else seems to make money selling them now. is that what i am hearing? apparently associated needs to fire their market analyst becasue i bet losi makes a ton of money otherwise they wouldn't make one either. or maybe jconcepts is going broke too? or kyosho? tamiya makes like half a dozen. and now academy. are they all losing money? by the way you are alowed to sell said 4wd in rtr form as a sport model too. the fact of the matter is losi got a head start and associated is scared to follow behind.
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Old 12-10-2004, 11:40 AM   #25
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Honestly, I am not sure what to think, though I find this kind of funny looking into it.

on AEs forum they state that there isn't enough interest in a 4wd buggy from AE. but, that question was asked SO MUCH that they had to devote a seperate section on addressing this question.

To me if I am getting enough questions about making a 4wd buggy that I have to create a page specifically to say that there isn't enough interest, that doesn't make alot of sense.

But hey, there are other options out there if AE doesn't want to join the game.

I wonder if the BJ4x4 guys are finding there buggy profitable?
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Old 12-10-2004, 12:56 PM   #26
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We must also remember that this interest we're generating is relative. We (racers, forum surfers,etc...) do not represent a majority in the market. 4wd is popular in small focused areas but not everywhere like stadium trucks/2wd buggies.
Losi took the plunge when they did the XX4 and it's paid off since they are the overwhelming majority of the cars out there. 50% of that market (assuming that Associated coud take that much of it) might not be enough to get them interested.
I agree with the other people out there. They've got the driveline and the suspension components, how hard would it be?
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Old 12-10-2004, 02:31 PM   #27
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I think the only real market for them would be to the racers. How's a hobby shop guy going to respond to a guy who just wants something to mess around with, plug and go, and easy to fix. I'd think you'd have a hard time to justify the price compared to a 2wd buggy to someone who just wants a backlot basher. Not to mention those guys end up with stadium trucks and MT's anyhow. So racers are who's gonna buy it. And well I only saw one 4x4 buggy class all year long, and I raced about 6 different tracks. I think it would be cool if AE made one, but why would they? There's already the BJ4, and whos going to buy that? Just the racers probably. AE could probably bring the price down, but would it be worth it for them?
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Old 12-10-2004, 03:35 PM   #28
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Good point, well put
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Old 12-10-2004, 05:38 PM   #29
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i'm still not buying it. what bashes better than a 4wd? frankly 2wd vehicles are just plain hard to drive let alone on unprepared surfaces and in the grass they get stuck. they could easily offer it i sport version rtr and it's no more complicated than the rc18t is, just bigger parts, not more of them! also i don't know how much time you spend on forums but i'd say the vast majority of the folks on here, albeit just passing through or browsing are newbies or kids looking for basic info on what's cool or what esc to get or tires yada yada yada. associated is a small company and they like it that way. they obviously have more on their plate than they can handle now as is clearly obvious in their neglect of their cars redesigns. losi redesigns every few years associated takes a decade. they simply don't have the man power to put into another car. how old is the GT design? look associated is all i race, but their lack of a 4wd car toasts my @$$.
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Old 12-10-2004, 10:04 PM   #30
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Man, I hear how old the GT is all the time. And how Losi makes such progress with the changes they are always doing. Personally I like a model that stays the same for a long time. Then you're not outdated, parts interchange when they do make small changes, and the thing is still competitive with any other truck out there.

As for how small or large a company AE is, I don't know. Depends what you compare it with. But I bet you they are one of the most profitable RC companies there is.

I'll bet the RC18T or whatever it is would outsell an AE 4x4 buggy. Perfect for kids, and the adult mini lovers are gonna fall all over eachother to get one.

As I said before, the BJ4 is now there for the diehard AE guys who want a 4x4. So why would associated go build one now when the people they would be building it for already have their answer. It may not be a true AE, but it may be as close as you'll get. And I may be completely wrong, and, oh yeah, did you hear about the new GT coming out???
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