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2 stage pistons...Do they work?

2 stage pistons...Do they work?

Old 08-31-2011, 12:14 PM
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Marcus, I have been experimenting with the pistons in my d8 shocks(mounted on my ssclcg slash) for several weeks now, and have finally come to a combo that works awesome. I am not going to post what those settings are, since I feel that I put in alot of time and effort to get them dialed to my liking and advantage on the track. i can say that it is important to get drillbits in .05 increments from 1.1-1.4mm and then you can really dial them in. As they are sent from Marcus they are pretty close, but getting them perfect will take some tuning time.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nytryder View Post
Marcus, I have been experimenting with the pistons in my d8 shocks(mounted on my ssclcg slash) for several weeks now, and have finally come to a combo that works awesome. I am not going to post what those settings are, since I feel that I put in alot of time and effort to get them dialed to my liking and advantage on the track. i can say that it is important to get drillbits in .05 increments from 1.1-1.4mm and then you can really dial them in. As they are sent from Marcus they are pretty close, but getting them perfect will take some tuning time.
i understand , and more than likely you posting them would confuse someone! PM with what you have done, i wont post your setup, just want to know!
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
i understand , and more than likely you posting them would confuse someone! PM with what you have done, i wont post your setup, just want to know!
Pm being sent.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:31 PM
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Finally, got my gear back and I am all setup for tonight. I hope to get a pack or two in before race time.
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:05 PM
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Well, all I found out tonight is I have no idea what I need to do to make this thing run like I believe it should. I swear it feels like it was much better before I ever started "tuning" on it. I kept losing the rear end and I have no idea how to describe it. It would just come around in the corners. Then there were times it just felt like something was broken.

We run two 5 min quals and a 5 min main in order to get the program finished so the kids can get home at a reasonable hour. Here's the kicker. I have many 9 lap runs at the 5 min 18 second timeframe. My first run was 9/5.23. My second was 9/5.06 and the main was about 9/5.17. So even though it felt off and I wasn't happy with it I still ran pretty good on the clock against my own times.

There are parts of the track that I noticed a difference to the better. The tabletop at the end of the front straight hooked real well and just got absorbed. The big banked sweeper we call Daytona and the 90 coming onto the front straight were fast too. The problem is all the tight turns feel squirly and loose. It seems to go from no steering to spin out.

I haven't had stick time in almost 3 weeks so maybe I'm just rusty. All I can say is I don't mind losing providing I run a good race. I didn't feel it tonight so I am abit frustrated. I want to make sure to anyone reading this that I don't blame anything on the pistons. It's just a report for the guys to decipher.
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:33 PM
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I had the same problem with the ass end trying to swap when coasting or breaking. then another driver told me to coast a little sooner to that turn and let the car settle...I did. and it helped. I also throttled it sooner and it corrected the issue,... driving with these shocks is a new learning curve for me,.. but its like,. get aggressive and just don't be afraid of hammering it and it works better then trying to feather it .. also went to a heavier shock in front and that helped me... you could try that and see. JMO. maybe a little heaver oil in front to stop the transfer.
with out letting the world knowing your set ups and letting the cat out of the bag try spring thing. that could help... did you do the drop test with out oils to get the car balanced ? I don't know everything. but sometimes someone suggestions help. I hope this helps if not let me know. I am willing to learn
and love to share. good luck
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:15 AM
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I think what you two are experiencing is the new body roll that these shocks bring, because the rebound is so light.

Now this is just me thinking out loud. This is what I think is happening. After the suspension settles and the car is at it's resting ride height, it becomes a lot easier for the car to get to max ride height. The lighter rebound is allowing this. At the time I was testing my car, I couldn't put my finger on it. But the more I think about what was happening, I think that's what was happening.

Now in a strait line, I don't think it bothers the car too much. Entering a turn is where it changes. Because the compression is stiffer and the rebound is lighter, the outside corner now does not compress as much and the inside corner extends further giving you this weird body roll affect. Depending on your setup, this could be fairly dramatic. In my situation, it was improved by simply going up 1 level of spring weight. It did not completely go away, it always felt a little weird.

Mantis or any other setup guru tell me if I'm thinking down the right path or not.
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:21 AM
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To clarify; I was not saying that 2 stage pistons don't work or shouldnt be considered as a tuning option.... Rather, when I tried them a few years back I experienced more issues related to inconsistent chassis roll and weight transfer as DavidKA mentioned. I was able to get a decent handle on adjusting pack/rebound with the pistons but had a much harder time getting chassis roll/weight transfer to be consistent. I basically would end up moving closer and closer to the same pack/rebound setting (closer to a single stage piston) just to make the chassis roll consistently in and out of corners. This was a few years ago using a brand of 2-stage pistons that I can't remember the name of.

That was my experience. I can see where they would could beneficial and if nothing else they will teach you a lot about pack/rebound/weight transfer.

The only way to know if 2-stage pistons are beneficial or not is to try them for yourself and decide. If nothing else, you will learn a lot!
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Buzz3 View Post
Well, all I found out tonight is I have no idea what I need to do to make this thing run like I believe it should. I swear it feels like it was much better before I ever started "tuning" on it. I kept losing the rear end and I have no idea how to describe it. It would just come around in the corners. Then there were times it just felt like something was broken.

We run two 5 min quals and a 5 min main in order to get the program finished so the kids can get home at a reasonable hour. Here's the kicker. I have many 9 lap runs at the 5 min 18 second timeframe. My first run was 9/5.23. My second was 9/5.06 and the main was about 9/5.17. So even though it felt off and I wasn't happy with it I still ran pretty good on the clock against my own times.

There are parts of the track that I noticed a difference to the better. The tabletop at the end of the front straight hooked real well and just got absorbed. The big banked sweeper we call Daytona and the 90 coming onto the front straight were fast too. The problem is all the tight turns feel squirly and loose. It seems to go from no steering to spin out.

I haven't had stick time in almost 3 weeks so maybe I'm just rusty. All I can say is I don't mind losing providing I run a good race. I didn't feel it tonight so I am abit frustrated. I want to make sure to anyone reading this that I don't blame anything on the pistons. It's just a report for the guys to decipher.
That's why I run 35/30...I don't find the lighter oils are working very good in our trucks. The 35w front seems to keep the rotation in check, almost like it stops the transfer just for a second and then I'm out of turn.

Didn't you go light? Drive mine this weekend and tell me if you like it.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:42 AM
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I seem to have a few issues to deal with.

1- drive a consistant line.

2- be able to see and remember what the truck is doing and where.

3- learn where to adjust for what I can't see and remember.

It used to be that when the track was wet I went fast (for me) and only had to worry about traction rolling and over driving. When it was dusty and dry I slid and spun out a lot. Now it's sliding and spinning on the wet track just not as bad as the dry. I imagine it will be undrivable on the dry now. Add to this that I have been having issues with the ESC and I am pretty confused. There were a couple times last night that it felt like the truck had a mind of it's own. Honestly, I am beginning to wonder if my eyes are the problem. lol
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Buzz3 View Post
I seem to have a few issues to deal with.

1- drive a consistant line.

2- be able to see and remember what the truck is doing and where.

3- learn where to adjust for what I can't see and remember.

It used to be that when the track was wet I went fast (for me) and only had to worry about traction rolling and over driving. When it was dusty and dry I slid and spun out a lot. Now it's sliding and spinning on the wet track just not as bad as the dry. I imagine it will be undrivable on the dry now. Add to this that I have been having issues with the ESC and I am pretty confused. There were a couple times last night that it felt like the truck had a mind of it's own. Honestly, I am beginning to wonder if my eyes are the problem. lol
I know what you mean...you begin to walk on eggshells, getting paranoid and wondering if you just imagined that anomaly or if it really did happen! LOL

If you are ever out there on Saturdays let me know and I will video your races for you. My wife videos mine and it is really nice being able to see if things really happened the way I remembered them or not.

Plus you get video of other drivers...the guys that i routinely dice it out with are also on the video a lot...i know exactly where there weak points are now.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Buzz3 View Post
I seem to have a few issues to deal with.

1- drive a consistant line.

2- be able to see and remember what the truck is doing and where.

3- learn where to adjust for what I can't see and remember.

It used to be that when the track was wet I went fast (for me) and only had to worry about traction rolling and over driving. When it was dusty and dry I slid and spun out a lot. Now it's sliding and spinning on the wet track just not as bad as the dry. I imagine it will be undrivable on the dry now. Add to this that I have been having issues with the ESC and I am pretty confused. There were a couple times last night that it felt like the truck had a mind of it's own. Honestly, I am beginning to wonder if my eyes are the problem. lol
Your track was pretty tough to drive when I was there...this lack of rain is killing most of them around here. I went to CC and it's even worse.

When we get old our eyes and brain do sometimes send mixed messages.....

I don't even trust my farts anymore.....
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Z4Kevo View Post
I know what you mean...you begin to walk on eggshells, getting paranoid and wondering if you just imagined that anomaly or if it really did happen! LOL

If you are ever out there on Saturdays let me know and I will video your races for you. My wife videos mine and it is really nice being able to see if things really happened the way I remembered them or not.
That is an awesome idea. I should be out there this sat. Thanks
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Buzz3 View Post
That is an awesome idea. I should be out there this sat. Thanks
Excellent. We will get some video for you!

I am looking at your avatar and trying to remember seeing your truck out there. Are you there on Saturdays very often?
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Old 09-01-2011, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Z4Kevo View Post
Excellent. We will get some video for you!

I am looking at your avatar and trying to remember seeing your truck out there. Are you there on Saturdays very often?
That's because I haven't figured out how to size a pic of my Losi that looks good enough for an avatar.

My SC4x4 is Red, white, and blue.
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