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2 stage pistons...Do they work?

2 stage pistons...Do they work?

Old 08-25-2011, 09:01 PM
  #421  
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Originally Posted by lip View Post
Well I ordered them already (where are they Marcus?!...hehe)...

I used blue loctite when I built the shocks the first time...I read the horror stories about people just taking them right out of the kit and putting them on the truck without rebuilding them so I've already done that and so far so good...I'm afraid red loctite might make it so I can never get it off again!
Dont be scared of the red, the damn srews are so small that they dont get much bite. I now use the red because i have had the blue locktite on and had a screw still come out. Just an FYI

Oh, and build them emulsion style!
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:08 PM
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what does "build them emulsion style" mean?
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by pakk View Post
what does "build them emulsion style" mean?


http://losiracing.blogspot.com/2011/...hock-tips.html


scroll down a little bit and you will see the emulsion style shock. Basicly it doesnt run a shock bladder.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:17 AM
  #424  
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Mantis, I know it's hard to know exactly without being there. I didn't get a chance to run your pistons at the track, but will later today. I did get them onto the truck, but then they closed the track down before I could run it with them. I decided on going with 22.5 wt. wow it seems sooo light, drop the truck from 8 inches off the table and it bottoms out. I know that it's normal with these pistons so I'm not worried about it, it just seems so weird lol Like you keep saying, gotta throw everything we know about conventional pistons out the window. Here's a vid of the track, do you think 22.5 will be good or do you think maybe I should go up slightly to say 25 or 27.5 even? Sorry for posting this vid in multiple threads, but I'm using it as a tool to show different things, like in another thread, I wanted to show how the motor ran. Click on the pic and the video will play.
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Old 08-26-2011, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottKelly911 View Post
Mantis, I know it's hard to know exactly without being there. I didn't get a chance to run your pistons at the track, but will later today. I did get them onto the truck, but then they closed the track down before I could run it with them. I decided on going with 22.5 wt. wow it seems sooo light, drop the truck from 8 inches off the table and it bottoms out. I know that it's normal with these pistons so I'm not worried about it, it just seems so weird lol Like you keep saying, gotta throw everything we know about conventional pistons out the window. Here's a vid of the track, do you think 22.5 will be good or do you think maybe I should go up slightly to say 25 or 27.5 even? Sorry for posting this vid in multiple threads, but I'm using it as a tool to show different things, like in another thread, I wanted to show how the motor ran. Click on the pic and the video will play.
start light, too many variables for me to tell you exactly what to do . if its bottoming out from 8" sounds like you are pretty close. worse thing that can happen is you scratch your chassis!! you will be surprised at how light you can get away with. thats a very smooth track, 20 is probably going to be perfect. is this the track you normall run on?
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:59 AM
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If that's OCRC, I'm definitely heading there next week. Track layout looks alot more fun than the wide open 8th scale layout that was there the past month or so.

Marcus, it is prety much smooth hard clay with bigger jumps. That is par for the course out here in so cal. Several of the local tracks had stutter bump/whoop sections in them a couple months ago, and lots of peeps complained about it being too hard on their cars, so they're nowhere to be found right now indoors. I really liked the rough obstacles as it tested the suspension setups to the max. I've had to resort to testing the shocks on the local outdoor rough tracks as the indoor tracks don't have enough junk on them lately to really see what's going on.

Scott Kelly, just start off soft like Marcus has said, and work your way up in weight until the chassis barely pans out on the biggest "hit". If you ever go to Milestone, Peg, or Rev., step down 2.5 to 5 wt in oil and you'll be really close. Those tracks are much rougher right now.
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:14 AM
  #427  
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Is there a need to still experiment with the springs before building these? I just picked up the complete set of springs for front/back of the SC104x4 and from what I understand it makes sense to do some spring tests without any dampening taking place before moving on to the shock dampening?
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:53 AM
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Springs are always the very first thing you start to tune. If they were balanced before, then there's nothing to worry about from just changing pistons.

In a perfect world your vehicle would have springs that were balanced front and rear so that the front and rear suspensions move up and down at the same time without oil. Then you'd have your shock compression and rebound set so that this still holds true after oil. This is only possible with 2 stage pistons. If you have a car that is heavier in the rear and you set them up so that they compress at the same rate, the rear will probably rise slower. If you have them setup so that they rise at the same rate, the rear will probably compress faster. This is a problem with single stage pistons and this is probably why Marcus recommends larger rebound holes on the rear shocks. It helps even things out.
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lip View Post
Is there a need to still experiment with the springs before building these? I just picked up the complete set of springs for front/back of the SC104x4 and from what I understand it makes sense to do some spring tests without any dampening taking place before moving on to the shock dampening?
This is what Marcus and I have found works well for my sc10 4x4, 1 stock x ring, or two trackstar orings, or two caster x rings in the shocks, middle upper shock mounts front and rear, outer shock mounts on the a arms front and rear, stock springs, 20wt oil front, 25wt oil rear, all built emulsion style. As Marcus stated earlyer about my sc10, it feals amazing!
Thanks again Marcus for dialing in bothe my rides!
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by symmetricon View Post
This is what Marcus and I have found works well for my sc10 4x4, 1 stock x ring, or two trackstar orings, or two caster x rings in the shocks, middle upper shock mounts front and rear, outer shock mounts on the a arms front and rear, stock springs, 20wt oil front, 25wt oil rear, all built emulsion style. As Marcus stated earlyer about my sc10, it feals amazing!
Thanks again Marcus for dialing in bothe my rides!
DAM you and your SC10!! that truck literally floats around the track! i could actually hold a conversation with you while driving and i dont think i had to be marshalled the entire time! for those of you who dont know the track at mikes is TOUGH, very dificult layout and you have to have mad concentration to get around it. lots of elevations , a jump over and alot of off camber, car tipping turns!
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by fredswain View Post
Springs are always the very first thing you start to tune. If they were balanced before, then there's nothing to worry about from just changing pistons.

In a perfect world your vehicle would have springs that were balanced front and rear so that the front and rear suspensions move up and down at the same time without oil. Then you'd have your shock compression and rebound set so that this still holds true after oil. This is only possible with 2 stage pistons. If you have a car that is heavier in the rear and you set them up so that they compress at the same rate, the rear will probably rise slower. If you have them setup so that they rise at the same rate, the rear will probably compress faster. This is a problem with single stage pistons and this is probably why Marcus recommends larger rebound holes on the rear shocks. It helps even things out.
exactly right Fred, now im starting to think about trying thicker sway bars now that we have real weight transfer??? what do ya think Fred?
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Old 08-26-2011, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
start light, too many variables for me to tell you exactly what to do . if its bottoming out from 8" sounds like you are pretty close. worse thing that can happen is you scratch your chassis!! you will be surprised at how light you can get away with. thats a very smooth track, 20 is probably going to be perfect. is this the track you normall run on?
Yep, that's the track I run on almost exclusively, though I do make the occasional trip to other places, OCRC is where I run pretty much every weekend. Glad to hear that I'm on the right track, I'll keep the 22.5 in it to start off since I already filled and put them on my truck. I did buy some 20wt also, so maybe I'll try that later on. our track is so smooth you could run an onroad car on it except for the jumps Thanks for all the help, I'll keep you guys posted on my findings later tonight.

Originally Posted by nytryder View Post
If that's OCRC, I'm definitely heading there next week. Track layout looks alot more fun than the wide open 8th scale layout that was there the past month or so.

Marcus, it is prety much smooth hard clay with bigger jumps. That is par for the course out here in so cal. Several of the local tracks had stutter bump/whoop sections in them a couple months ago, and lots of peeps complained about it being too hard on their cars, so they're nowhere to be found right now indoors. I really liked the rough obstacles as it tested the suspension setups to the max. I've had to resort to testing the shocks on the local outdoor rough tracks as the indoor tracks don't have enough junk on them lately to really see what's going on.

Scott Kelly, just start off soft like Marcus has said, and work your way up in weight until the chassis barely pans out on the biggest "hit". If you ever go to Milestone, Peg, or Rev., step down 2.5 to 5 wt in oil and you'll be really close. Those tracks are much rougher right now.
Yeah Nytryder, that's the new layout and seriously, this is one of the most fun layouts I've ran there. It's fast but not boring, it's got a few technical sections to be challenging to find the faster lines through them and it's got decent sized jumps but you don't have to worry about breaking your car with a 30' landing lol definitely try to make it out next week, if you come out, pm me so I can meet you. Thanks for the help!
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Old 08-26-2011, 12:48 PM
  #433  
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Originally Posted by symmetricon View Post
This is what Marcus and I have found works well for my sc10 4x4, 1 stock x ring, or two trackstar orings, or two caster x rings in the shocks, middle upper shock mounts front and rear, outer shock mounts on the a arms front and rear, stock springs, 20wt oil front, 25wt oil rear, all built emulsion style. As Marcus stated earlyer about my sc10, it feals amazing!
Thanks again Marcus for dialing in bothe my rides!
Great info. Thanks!
So when you build them, I should put the two trackstar o-rings the same way they are stock(sandwich that tube piece)?
Do I just not put any shock bladder seals in at all for emulsion?

LIP
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:41 PM
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Are they gonna make these for 2wd sct, and buggy?
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
Its a go for sure, saturday sep 3rd. be ready!
just so you know the following weekend is the Short Couse Challenge II

ttp://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z227/lighterspeed/scsoii.jpg


Should be a great short Couse turnout that weekend. Either way - we'll have some fun.
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