2 stage pistons...Do they work?
08-25-2011, 09:01 PM
#421
Originally Posted by lip
Well I ordered them already (where are they Marcus?!...hehe)...
I used blue loctite when I built the shocks the first time...I read the horror stories about people just taking them right out of the kit and putting them on the truck without rebuilding them so I've already done that and so far so good...I'm afraid red loctite might make it so I can never get it off again!
I used blue loctite when I built the shocks the first time...I read the horror stories about people just taking them right out of the kit and putting them on the truck without rebuilding them so I've already done that and so far so good...I'm afraid red loctite might make it so I can never get it off again!
Oh, and build them emulsion style!
08-25-2011, 09:08 PM
#422
what does "build them emulsion style" mean?
08-25-2011, 09:13 PM
#423
Originally Posted by pakk
what does "build them emulsion style" mean?
http://losiracing.blogspot.com/2011/...hock-tips.html
scroll down a little bit and you will see the emulsion style shock. Basicly it doesnt run a shock bladder.
08-26-2011, 06:17 AM
#424
Mantis, I know it's hard to know exactly without being there. I didn't get a chance to run your pistons at the track, but will later today. I did get them onto the truck, but then they closed the track down before I could run it with them. I decided on going with 22.5 wt. wow it seems sooo light, drop the truck from 8 inches off the table and it bottoms out. I know that it's normal with these pistons so I'm not worried about it, it just seems so weird lol Like you keep saying, gotta throw everything we know about conventional pistons out the window. Here's a vid of the track, do you think 22.5 will be good or do you think maybe I should go up slightly to say 25 or 27.5 even? Sorry for posting this vid in multiple threads, but I'm using it as a tool to show different things, like in another thread, I wanted to show how the motor ran. Click on the pic and the video will play.
08-26-2011, 06:59 AM
#425
Originally Posted by ScottKelly911
Mantis, I know it's hard to know exactly without being there. I didn't get a chance to run your pistons at the track, but will later today. I did get them onto the truck, but then they closed the track down before I could run it with them. I decided on going with 22.5 wt. wow it seems sooo light, drop the truck from 8 inches off the table and it bottoms out. I know that it's normal with these pistons so I'm not worried about it, it just seems so weird lol Like you keep saying, gotta throw everything we know about conventional pistons out the window. Here's a vid of the track, do you think 22.5 will be good or do you think maybe I should go up slightly to say 25 or 27.5 even? Sorry for posting this vid in multiple threads, but I'm using it as a tool to show different things, like in another thread, I wanted to show how the motor ran. Click on the pic and the video will play.
08-26-2011, 09:59 AM
#426
If that's OCRC, I'm definitely heading there next week. Track layout looks alot more fun than the wide open 8th scale layout that was there the past month or so.
Marcus, it is prety much smooth hard clay with bigger jumps. That is par for the course out here in so cal. Several of the local tracks had stutter bump/whoop sections in them a couple months ago, and lots of peeps complained about it being too hard on their cars, so they're nowhere to be found right now indoors. I really liked the rough obstacles as it tested the suspension setups to the max. I've had to resort to testing the shocks on the local outdoor rough tracks as the indoor tracks don't have enough junk on them lately to really see what's going on.
Scott Kelly, just start off soft like Marcus has said, and work your way up in weight until the chassis barely pans out on the biggest "hit". If you ever go to Milestone, Peg, or Rev., step down 2.5 to 5 wt in oil and you'll be really close. Those tracks are much rougher right now.
Marcus, it is prety much smooth hard clay with bigger jumps. That is par for the course out here in so cal. Several of the local tracks had stutter bump/whoop sections in them a couple months ago, and lots of peeps complained about it being too hard on their cars, so they're nowhere to be found right now indoors. I really liked the rough obstacles as it tested the suspension setups to the max. I've had to resort to testing the shocks on the local outdoor rough tracks as the indoor tracks don't have enough junk on them lately to really see what's going on.
Scott Kelly, just start off soft like Marcus has said, and work your way up in weight until the chassis barely pans out on the biggest "hit". If you ever go to Milestone, Peg, or Rev., step down 2.5 to 5 wt in oil and you'll be really close. Those tracks are much rougher right now.
08-26-2011, 10:14 AM
#427
Is there a need to still experiment with the springs before building these? I just picked up the complete set of springs for front/back of the SC104x4 and from what I understand it makes sense to do some spring tests without any dampening taking place before moving on to the shock dampening?
08-26-2011, 10:53 AM
#428
Springs are always the very first thing you start to tune. If they were balanced before, then there's nothing to worry about from just changing pistons.
In a perfect world your vehicle would have springs that were balanced front and rear so that the front and rear suspensions move up and down at the same time without oil. Then you'd have your shock compression and rebound set so that this still holds true after oil. This is only possible with 2 stage pistons. If you have a car that is heavier in the rear and you set them up so that they compress at the same rate, the rear will probably rise slower. If you have them setup so that they rise at the same rate, the rear will probably compress faster. This is a problem with single stage pistons and this is probably why Marcus recommends larger rebound holes on the rear shocks. It helps even things out.
In a perfect world your vehicle would have springs that were balanced front and rear so that the front and rear suspensions move up and down at the same time without oil. Then you'd have your shock compression and rebound set so that this still holds true after oil. This is only possible with 2 stage pistons. If you have a car that is heavier in the rear and you set them up so that they compress at the same rate, the rear will probably rise slower. If you have them setup so that they rise at the same rate, the rear will probably compress faster. This is a problem with single stage pistons and this is probably why Marcus recommends larger rebound holes on the rear shocks. It helps even things out.
08-26-2011, 11:30 AM
#429
Originally Posted by lip
Is there a need to still experiment with the springs before building these? I just picked up the complete set of springs for front/back of the SC104x4 and from what I understand it makes sense to do some spring tests without any dampening taking place before moving on to the shock dampening?
Thanks again Marcus for dialing in bothe my rides!
08-26-2011, 11:55 AM
#430
Originally Posted by symmetricon
This is what Marcus and I have found works well for my sc10 4x4, 1 stock x ring, or two trackstar orings, or two caster x rings in the shocks, middle upper shock mounts front and rear, outer shock mounts on the a arms front and rear, stock springs, 20wt oil front, 25wt oil rear, all built emulsion style. As Marcus stated earlyer about my sc10, it feals amazing!
Thanks again Marcus for dialing in bothe my rides!
Thanks again Marcus for dialing in bothe my rides!
08-26-2011, 11:59 AM
#431
Originally Posted by fredswain
Springs are always the very first thing you start to tune. If they were balanced before, then there's nothing to worry about from just changing pistons.
In a perfect world your vehicle would have springs that were balanced front and rear so that the front and rear suspensions move up and down at the same time without oil. Then you'd have your shock compression and rebound set so that this still holds true after oil. This is only possible with 2 stage pistons. If you have a car that is heavier in the rear and you set them up so that they compress at the same rate, the rear will probably rise slower. If you have them setup so that they rise at the same rate, the rear will probably compress faster. This is a problem with single stage pistons and this is probably why Marcus recommends larger rebound holes on the rear shocks. It helps even things out.
In a perfect world your vehicle would have springs that were balanced front and rear so that the front and rear suspensions move up and down at the same time without oil. Then you'd have your shock compression and rebound set so that this still holds true after oil. This is only possible with 2 stage pistons. If you have a car that is heavier in the rear and you set them up so that they compress at the same rate, the rear will probably rise slower. If you have them setup so that they rise at the same rate, the rear will probably compress faster. This is a problem with single stage pistons and this is probably why Marcus recommends larger rebound holes on the rear shocks. It helps even things out.
08-26-2011, 12:22 PM
#432
Originally Posted by MantisWorx
start light, too many variables for me to tell you exactly what to do . if its bottoming out from 8" sounds like you are pretty close. worse thing that can happen is you scratch your chassis!! you will be surprised at how light you can get away with. thats a very smooth track, 20 is probably going to be perfect. is this the track you normall run on?
Thanks for all the help, I'll keep you guys posted on my findings later tonight.
Originally Posted by nytryder
If that's OCRC, I'm definitely heading there next week. Track layout looks alot more fun than the wide open 8th scale layout that was there the past month or so.
Marcus, it is prety much smooth hard clay with bigger jumps. That is par for the course out here in so cal. Several of the local tracks had stutter bump/whoop sections in them a couple months ago, and lots of peeps complained about it being too hard on their cars, so they're nowhere to be found right now indoors. I really liked the rough obstacles as it tested the suspension setups to the max. I've had to resort to testing the shocks on the local outdoor rough tracks as the indoor tracks don't have enough junk on them lately to really see what's going on.
Scott Kelly, just start off soft like Marcus has said, and work your way up in weight until the chassis barely pans out on the biggest "hit". If you ever go to Milestone, Peg, or Rev., step down 2.5 to 5 wt in oil and you'll be really close. Those tracks are much rougher right now.
Marcus, it is prety much smooth hard clay with bigger jumps. That is par for the course out here in so cal. Several of the local tracks had stutter bump/whoop sections in them a couple months ago, and lots of peeps complained about it being too hard on their cars, so they're nowhere to be found right now indoors. I really liked the rough obstacles as it tested the suspension setups to the max. I've had to resort to testing the shocks on the local outdoor rough tracks as the indoor tracks don't have enough junk on them lately to really see what's going on.
Scott Kelly, just start off soft like Marcus has said, and work your way up in weight until the chassis barely pans out on the biggest "hit". If you ever go to Milestone, Peg, or Rev., step down 2.5 to 5 wt in oil and you'll be really close. Those tracks are much rougher right now.
08-26-2011, 12:48 PM
#433
Originally Posted by symmetricon
This is what Marcus and I have found works well for my sc10 4x4, 1 stock x ring, or two trackstar orings, or two caster x rings in the shocks, middle upper shock mounts front and rear, outer shock mounts on the a arms front and rear, stock springs, 20wt oil front, 25wt oil rear, all built emulsion style. As Marcus stated earlyer about my sc10, it feals amazing!
Thanks again Marcus for dialing in bothe my rides!
Thanks again Marcus for dialing in bothe my rides!
So when you build them, I should put the two trackstar o-rings the same way they are stock(sandwich that tube piece)?
Do I just not put any shock bladder seals in at all for emulsion?
LIP
08-26-2011, 04:41 PM
#434
Are they gonna make these for 2wd sct, and buggy?
08-26-2011, 05:10 PM
#435
Tech Initiate
Originally Posted by MantisWorx
Its a go for sure, saturday sep 3rd. be ready!
ttp://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z227/lighterspeed/scsoii.jpg
Should be a great short Couse turnout that weekend. Either way - we'll have some fun.
