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2 stage pistons...Do they work?

2 stage pistons...Do they work?

Old 08-21-2011, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Buzz3 View Post
Psst... The Losi would have driven away from that.

The rango is fast but it is not nearly as forgiving of mistakes as the tank.
my issue with the losi is its weight and finding a 2s system that will work (you are having issues with that too!) i run a hyper which is schooling them all around here! even before the pistons, the only guy quicker than me drives a Jammin and he could drive a brick on wheels and still beat everyone! on our tracks the Losi's cant make the 10min mains without thermaling or dumping. But just like everything else there are too many variable to determine which truck is the best, someone can win with any of them if it is ssetup right!

Chucko there is no setup sheet for the losi, i think Bill is running 30/30 with them out of the box, dont think he has drilled them or anything yet, so i think he has more in them once he grasp the concept!

Pakk, 1.4 will probably be ok in the rear but not the front, the lazer is the latest saddlepak version which also may be different if you have the stick version. Remember they dont make a drill that puts material back!! worst case scenario if the 1.4 ends up too much just go up on the oil.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:35 PM
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so I'm confused a bit on what your looking for when you say it's not right. Everything I know about shocks are irrelevant here - kinda cool but I feel like such a noob.

I assume with your clapping your hands under water example (which now makes lot of sense) any light oil will absorb small bumps similiarly - are you just trying to keep it from bottoming out in the worst sections of that track? So start with the lightest oil and go thicker til it stops bottoming out on the worst bumps?

What is weird is I normaly use my shock oil to limit the weight transfer as you get on or off throttle. I don't understand why - but even with the water like feel - it doesn't flop the weight when you get on or off throttle violently. It's really freaky and defies logic.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:39 PM
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Yeah, I'll just get the right drill bit and wait.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
excellent Bill (BTW im shipping out your pistons tuesday)!
well my day didnt go so well with the durango, got on the track and i could tell that the 50/35 combo wasnt quite right, front was way to stiff and the rear slightly too stiff, truck jumped very well. Clay was moist and the only tires i had were some dry blue groove tires that kept loading up. even with the tires it was fast just lacked rear traction and the front would push. SO here comes the owner......... got about 5 laps into it and SLAMMED in to a hold down stake which ripped the entire front left off of the truck!!! day over.

so my conclusion is that the customer that stated he was using 30/25 was spot on, with 35 in the rear the truck wasnt even close to chassis slapping and the front barely moved at all with 50. this is with a 540/rx8 combo.
I ran 30/20 oil weight on my desc410r and it is dialed. I be able to hit 16 laps instead of my regular 15 laps without changing set up. I am thinking even try 25/20 and see how it go. I really want to try 25/15 but I do not have any 15 wt shock oil on hand.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lighterspeed View Post
so I'm confused a bit on what your looking for when you say it's not right. Everything I know about shocks are irrelevant here - kinda cool but I feel like such a noob.

I assume with your clapping your hands under water example (which now makes lot of sense) any light oil will absorb small bumps similiarly - are you just trying to keep it from bottoming out in the worst sections of that track? So start with the lightest oil and go thicker til it stops bottoming out on the worst bumps?

What is weird is I normaly use my shock oil to limit the weight transfer as you get on or off throttle. I don't understand why - but even with the water like feel - it doesn't flop the weight when you get on or off throttle violently. It's really freaky and defies logic.
LOL, yea you have to erase your programming with these! but to answer your question yes only use oil that is thick enough to stop the chassis slap on your hardest landings, no reason to run thicker oil aorund the entire track. in the past this is what you had to do but with stiff rebound you had to sacrifice with chassis slap or super stiff shocks, neither are beneficial. once you get the pack right then turn to rebound and there are a few ways to determine this: one (the best way) is slow mo video, two is listen for the motor tone you should hear slower pulses instead of quick abrupt ones. three is your roost, you want a steady roost, if it is choppy that means your tires are not on the ground. Once you get your vehicle setup you should only have to change oils to adapt to different tracks.

in a perfect world you want the chassis to stay steady and flat around the entire track which means that the suspension is doing a perfect job. not possible in reality but your car should "float" and seem effortless none the less. when i was driving the rango today the front felt like normal shocks in that it didnt seem to absorb much. Remember that now we can follow the rules of 1:1 suspension tuning just like every other aspect of our cars.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mwhiteknight View Post
I ran 30/20 oil weight on my desc410r and it is dialed. I be able to hit 16 laps instead of my regular 15 laps without changing set up. I am thinking even try 25/20 and see how it go. I really want to try 25/15 but I do not have any 15 wt shock oil on hand.
THATS what im talking about!!! after driving the truck today i cant see how 50/50 will work, the customer said that with 35/35 it was chassis slapping all over the place??????
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
THATS what im talking about!!! after driving the truck today i cant see how 50/50 will work, the customer said that with 35/35 it was chassis slapping all over the place??????
It could be his truck is very heavy or his track has huge monster jump. My truck is light and our indoor track has a average double jumps. My chassis never slap, unless I force it to slap by over jump with too much power or landing square on 4 wheels. Your piston rock Mantis, I ordered an extra set of piston for my backup truck as well.
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:37 PM
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Marcus, it seems you are always talking about using rooster tails and motor noise for the proper tuning of your pistons. What if the track that I race at has dirt that is so smooth that if it weren't for the jumps, you could run a TC on it. Also the dirt is so compacted that the only little bit of loose dirt is off line and it is just a light dust. Basically will your pistons be an advantage on something other than a rough, blown out, outdoor 1/8 scale track?
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by alter_ego View Post
Marcus, it seems you are always talking about using rooster tails and motor noise for the proper tuning of your pistons. What if the track that I race at has dirt that is so smooth that if it weren't for the jumps, you could run a TC on it. Also the dirt is so compacted that the only little bit of loose dirt is off line and it is just a light dust. Basically will your pistons be an advantage on something other than a rough, blown out, outdoor 1/8 scale track?
you will still get the agility and jumping advantages, in your case a rythm section will shine! i can imagine that in your situation the competetion is close ANY advantage will help, right?
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
PP me 5.00 and i will send you some replacements. its amazing how much force happens inside the shock.
Thanks Marcus, I will PP you right away. FYI felt good the short time they were working. Wish I would have done it up right the first time.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:08 AM
  #326  
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
my issue with the losi is its weight and finding a 2s system that will work (you are having issues with that too!) i run a hyper which is schooling them all around here! even before the pistons, the only guy quicker than me drives a Jammin and he could drive a brick on wheels and still beat everyone! on our tracks the Losi's cant make the 10min mains without thermaling or dumping. But just like everything else there are too many variable to determine which truck is the best, someone can win with any of them if it is ssetup right!

Chucko there is no setup sheet for the losi, i think Bill is running 30/30 with them out of the box, dont think he has drilled them or anything yet, so i think he has more in them once he grasp the concept!

Pakk, 1.4 will probably be ok in the rear but not the front, the lazer is the latest saddlepak version which also may be different if you have the stick version. Remember they dont make a drill that puts material back!! worst case scenario if the 1.4 ends up too much just go up on the oil.
MMP with 3800 on 2s using Team Orion carbon 90c 6500mah lipo's....155 temps in Austin. You'll make mains and not thermal at all. I can make them also with my 5000mah Venom's. Geared 16t
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by larlev View Post
MMP with 3800 on 2s using Team Orion carbon 90c 6500mah lipo's....155 temps in Austin. You'll make mains and not thermal at all. I can make them also with my 5000mah Venom's. Geared 16t
6500? GEEEESH you could drive to Cali with that battery!!
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
6500? GEEEESH you could drive to Cali with that battery!!
its overkill.....i put back after 10min main just under 5130, so my 5000's just dont make it. Thats driving hard and off my lid.

Installing pistons as we speak....
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:13 PM
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Marcus,

Should these work equally well with emulsion shock setup?

I have a little pause before the shock rebounds...I'm guessing this is what makes them different
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:43 PM
  #330  
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I am going back to bladders Larry. We couldn't get the air out and it handled bad.

I have the alum caps without the bleed hole.
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