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RC10B4/T4 Forum

Old 03-13-2009, 06:53 AM
  #7096  
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Originally Posted by AE BT View Post
i went out to my local track today with my b4, im running stock 17.5. I went through 3 front bulkheads today. Yes they all broke... anyone have an idea why?? would an Aluminum bulkhead work better or would that just make me snap arms, turnbuckles ect?

I just brought this car back to life it had been sitting for awhile but i never had this problem befor so im pretty confused here.
The front aluminum hinge pin brace is a MUST, so pick one up and you should never break a front bulkhead again. If you already have the aluminum brace, grab the bulkhead in Al as well.

Also, adding weight up front gains steering, so the aluminum will gain steering over the plastic.
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:12 AM
  #7097  
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Originally Posted by Krio View Post
The front aluminum hinge pin brace is a MUST, so pick one up and you should never break a front bulkhead again. If you already have the aluminum brace, grab the bulkhead in Al as well.

Also, adding weight up front gains steering, so the aluminum will gain steering over the plastic.
Sorry , you lose steering over all with weight on the ft . You can find a little on power steering though.....
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Sorry , you lose steering over all with weight on the ft . You can find a little on power steering though.....
Adding weight to the front gains steering in the same way as going to a thinner oil or softer spring on the front shocks; more weight on the front of the car. Thinner oil gives more front weight upon initial braking and entering a corner, softer springs give more weight later when braking and mid corner and exiting. Adding weight does the same thing, just all the time.

Also, there are many people that run a single lead weight on top of the front bulkhead or on the chassis next to the servo to gain steering (primarily on high bite tracks. Switching to the aluminum is like adding slightly less than a 1/4 oz weight in the front). Adding weight to the front also means you lose rear traction as a smaller percentage of the cars weight will transfer to the rear.
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:03 AM
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Just put a couple oz`s on the ft end of your ride next time and discover how much steering you lose ....

Its a common mistake thinking more weight on the ft means more steering....


Not trying to call you out , just wish everyone to understand how weight on the ft end works ...

The only time recommend to use extra weight on the ft is when slicks are being use , the extra weight helps keep the ft down from wheelies and the steering is smoothed out ....
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:04 AM
  #7100  
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To say you gain or lose steering from adding or removing weight, or even lighter and thicker oil can be often mistaken...

Many people say "softer oil up front gives more steering".

This is true, but only in part.... Thicker oil can also give more steering too. It all just depends on where in the corner you are referring to.

Thinner oil can give you more entry steering, due to it allowing the nose to compress quicker, however it will also allow the front end to lift up quicker upon acceleration, which takes away steering.

The opposite is true for thicker oil... Less entry steering, more exiting.

Now with the weights, you have to think in terms of weight transfer.
You can't transfer weight to the nose if the weight is already there.

If you add weight to the nose of the car, the car has a harder time transfering more weight to the nose in the corner. Due to this the car does not have as much entry steering.

However, due to the added weight on the nose, the car has a harder time transfering the weight to the rear of the car under acceleration. This gives more exiting steering, because it keeps the weight on the front end.

So it's really all in perspective, and where in the corner you are refering to. A lot of people refer to on-power and off-power steering as just "steering" which makes it confusing for some.
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:12 AM
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What would I gear an LRP X-12 6.5 with a TC-Spec speed control in a T4? 87 Spur
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Just put a couple oz`s on the ft end of your ride next time and discover how much steering you lose ....

Its a common mistake thinking more weight on the ft means more steering....


Not trying to call you out , just wish everyone to understand how weight on the ft end works ...

The only time recommend to use extra weight on the ft is when slicks are being use , the extra weight helps keep the ft down from wheelies and the steering is smoothed out ....
A couple oz? That amount is overkill and not what I'm talking about. I currently have .5 to .75 oz on the front end and it has definitely gained steering. Sliding the pack fore and aft is the same; more weight up front for more steering, more in the back for rear traction.

Originally Posted by teambighead View Post
To say you gain or lose steering from adding or removing weight, or even lighter and thicker oil can be often mistaken...

Many people say "softer oil up front gives more steering".

This is true, but only in part.... Thicker oil can also give more steering too. It all just depends on where in the corner you are referring to.

Thinner oil can give you more entry steering, due to it allowing the nose to compress quicker, however it will also allow the front end to lift up quicker upon acceleration, which takes away steering.

The opposite is true for thicker oil... Less entry steering, more exiting.

Now with the weights, you have to think in terms of weight transfer.
You can't transfer weight to the nose if the weight is already there.

If you add weight to the nose of the car, the car has a harder time transfering more weight to the nose in the corner. Due to this the car does not have as much entry steering.

However, due to the added weight on the nose, the car has a harder time transfering the weight to the rear of the car under acceleration. This gives more exiting steering, because it keeps the weight on the front end.

So it's really all in perspective, and where in the corner you are refering to. A lot of people refer to on-power and off-power steering as just "steering" which makes it confusing for some.
I agree with the weight transfer and is why I noted the different areas that springs and shock oils change handling in my previous post.

"Now with the weights, you have to think in terms of weight transfer.
You can't transfer weight to the nose if the weight is already there.

If you add weight to the nose of the car, the car has a harder time transferring more weight to the nose in the corner. Due to this the car does not have as much entry steering."

It is not all about transferring, it is about how much weight is placed on the tires, whether transferred or not. A car maintaining a constant speed has no front/back weight transfer, thus a car with more weight on the front tires has more front traction and thus will push less compared to a car that has more weight on the rear.

Originally Posted by Chris Mac View Post
What would I gear an LRP X-12 6.5 with a TC-Spec speed control in a T4? 87 Spur
Start with a 19 tooth and gear up or down from there for a medium to large track.
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:40 AM
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From http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...less-dyno.html

Hacker 13.5 vs Novak 13.5





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Old 03-13-2009, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Krio View Post
It is not all about transferring, it is about how much weight is placed on the tires, whether transferred or not. A car maintaining a constant speed has no front/back weight transfer, thus a car with more weight on the front tires has more front traction and thus will push less compared to a car that has more weight on the rear.
Yes, at a constant speed and going strait the car does settle out, and then the added weight becomes weight placed on the tires. When the car is at the state of being settled there will be no for and aft weight transfer. But at this point, weight bias isn't going to alter to much of the cars ability to go in a strait line at speed.

But keep in mind, as soon as you accelerate, or under braking, or enter a corner, or exit a corner, this is where weight transfer takes place, and the placement of the weights take effect.

This is why adding weight to the nose will decrease entry steering and increase exiting steering.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:22 AM
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mattnin, that is awesome! I hope you plan on testing as many available 13.5 motors as you can.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by teambighead View Post
Yes, at a constant speed and going strait the car does settle out, and then the added weight becomes weight placed on the tires. When the car is at the state of being settled there will be no for and aft weight transfer. But at this point, weight bias isn't going to alter to much of the cars ability to go in a strait line at speed.

But keep in mind, as soon as you accelerate, or under braking, or enter a corner, or exit a corner, this is where weight transfer takes place, and the placement of the weights take effect.

This is why adding weight to the nose will decrease entry steering and increase exiting steering.
You keep saying that braking (corner entry) transfers weight to the front and you gain steering, and then you say adding weight to the front looses corner entry. Weight on the front tires, no matter added or transferred, will result in more traction. It is about % of weight front to rear and that is why sliding the pack forward gains steering (on and off power) because the front tires how have a greater % of the cars weight.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:55 AM
  #7107  
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Kiro

Try 2oz , it will exgagerate the whole effect & your ride should push entering the turns. And not just a little push , but a lot !


This is how I learned ....
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Kiro

Try 2oz , it will exgagerate the whole effect & your ride should push entering the turns. And not just a little push , but a lot !


This is how I learned ....
Again, I'm not talking about 2oz. That is like saying don't add negative camber because I tried -10 degrees and it was horrible.
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Kiro

Try 2oz , it will exgagerate the whole effect & your ride should push entering the turns. And not just a little push , but a lot !


This is how I learned ....
And it will have a twitch coming out of the corner also A+ See ya at the track tonight
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:14 PM
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Kiro , C-on , just give it a try sometime , best way to show you ...



PT
I`m already there !!!
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