IMO the solid shock will not work. The variable will then be how much deflection the tires have. If one foam is slightly firmer than the other one or larger then it will show that corner being heavier. You will be chasing your tail.
Ok, so how about solid setup wheels like inroad guys use or maybe bare rims. Still not gonna work. Unless the distance to the contact points on the scales is perfect, and the height of all four scales is identical, you will still be chasing your tail. Unless you have a height gauge and tenth indicator to get all of this within .001" it won't work. I'm a qc inspector and can tell you if you have a supposedly flat part and set it on a surface plate if the part is off by .001" or more you can feel it rock by hand. You can tap on the high corner and feel it. What does that mean? It means there is zero weight on the corner of the part. The scale on that corner of the car will read zero. Now what are you going to do? Add weight to that corner? Ok, so now the opposite corner has zero weight. It's like a teeter totter.

Best way I see if you want to do this is to take oil and orings out of the shocks to eliminate that variable, make sure shock collars and shock length are the same side to side, and use solid setup wheels or bare rims. The variable then is whether the spring rates are exactly the same, which they are not. But they are close enough for what you are trying to do.

The deflection and foam is relative, will be there with or without solid shocks. not only that but we are simply talking about scaling. trying to get the height or any other dimension that close on a sloppy RC car is also moot there is too much slop everywhere.

Moving on now, im not going to argue about it anymore its like religion and politics, if you dont want to believe than you will not. amazes me how the nay sayers have not even tried it but seem to already know it wont work!

OK so i installed the solid shocks and put my car on the scales on my level floor. i had to add 2oz to the right side towards just a hair towards the back, with that weight my corners are as follows:
RR=932
RL=937
FR=881
FL=886

like a dummy i forgot to scale with the shocks but it doesnt matter . so now i am going to get the shocks even, install and rescale. will chime back in a few!
http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/x...8-04123819.jpg

OK step two i equaled out the shock lengths (which were off a little) and equalized the collars.
an here are the numbers after installing the shock
RR=985
RL=955
FR=885
FL=930

so this tells me that something is off with the shocks but not much so it only took a few turns (dont think i even went more than 3/4 of a turn on the RR at most). so here is the deal, it would have taken me MUCH longer to do this mainly because you have to turn a collar, push the car down ,let it settle etc etc Adding weight is a pain because it never stays still. So to me it is a success, corner balancing without having to add weight (because it was weighted without the shocks) lets me just concentrate on just adjusting shocks instead of both.
my final numbers:
RR=965
RL=970
FR=908
FL=913

id say that is well balanced and the solid shocks work, at least they dont NOT work:nod:

If you have to add weight then you simply look at your percents and decide where you need the weight. If its balanced just the way you want but light then you add the weight near the center. Too much left, add it to the right and so on. Shocks will not affect the left/right or front/rear balance. After the weight is added and its balanced where you want then you focus on the corner weights. Its a two step process. That may be where the confusion is coming from.

And for the record the only part that was quoted in my last post was the rules 1-4. Not the last half.

Nick

Of course you marked the tires so you were able to set them exactly at the same spot rotationally to eliminate the variable of them being out of round or softer in one spot, right?

I've been watching the responses with an open mind trying to rationalize each method and I may see a potential problem with the solid shock method although it initially made sense to me. My concern is that the suspension and wheels are unsprung mass whereas the rest of the car is sprung mass. By balancing the entire vehicle as 1 entity, we now remove the unsprung vs sprung mass of the vehicle. Therefore while it may be static balanced in relation to the ground, it may be out of balance in relation to the shocks.

I need to brainstorm a bit more on this. In the end each method may end up bringing results so close to each other that we could never feel it in the handling but I'd still like to use the one that is most technically correct.

..................

Theres the problem. The motor needs to be turned to 37.25 degrees if its a tuesday or thursday. Seriously though after you had your corner weights did you figure your left and rear percent then add weight or did you just goo off of the induvidual numbers?

Fred no matter what conclusion you come up with nobody is arguing the fact that you will still have to corner balance with the springs. I weight balanced with solid shocks, removed and then corner balanced with the collars. if my balancing with the solid shocks was so far off it would have amplified much worse than what it was after i installed the shocks.

lets break it down to the basics:
we are balancing a rectangle object to be perfect L/R and not so perfect F/R (40-60%) so if you put a box on a center point how would you balance it? easy by putting weights in critical locations to keep it from tipping over. what difference does it make if the corners are sprung or not, the object is not moving while we are balancing it. To me it is simple as that, the scales dont care if its sprung weight or not, there is no scale setting that compensates for this, they just measure gravity. if you rotate a wheel to its same point because it is high or low why does that matter its the same wheel that will be on the car with the springs so why even bring that up? if a wheel is higher its going to put the same force on a spring that it would with a solid bar.

There are two problems. One you are doing a back to back comparison to prove that your solid shock theory works. I just thought you would want to eliminate a variable. And two you are trying to sell a product so your motive to show they work is questionable. No need to be a smart ass. Or if you want to go there we can.

not sure i understand your question but after i weight balanced it it was close enough for just a few twist to get it where it is now which is close enough for me. didnt calculate anything as the balancing was technically done already.

For all intents and purposes the suspension system weighs the same left to right so static balancing without the shocks would seem to work just fine. With the shocks installed again and the car placed back on the scales any inconsistencies would seem to automatically work themselves out.

After much thought I'm going to stick with the idea that utilizing "solid shocks" for static balancing is a good idea. We want to balance the shocks around the car not the car around the shocks. Hasn't that been the whole point of the thread anyways?

.................

Mantis....that's close enough for me.

Now quit weighing your truck and get on those scte shocks....haha

That's my point. There are too many variables using the solid shock method still. Yes you are eliminating the shocks and springs but there is still slop, chassis flex, arm flex, tire flex, etc. affecting the outcome. If all these come into play in one form or another you will be adding weight to the car to corner weight it incorrectly. It just seems ridiculous to worry about 1/2 ounce on an 8 pound car.

I corner weighted my losi 22 with the shocks on and the rear was eqaul within a few grams. The front was off 50 grams side to side. It turns equally well both ways and the rear end doesn't step out under acceleration. Good enough for me and 99% of the rest of us without getting totally anal about stuff. If I can't feel a difference with a 3 pound buggy then I'm not even going to waste my time with my 1/8 scale.

If you really want to check corner weight put the chassis on scales with equal length standoffs. Take as many variables out as you can. I just hope the chassis is perfectly flat or you will be chasing your tail again. :)