I've always been against a spec tire at an event like this as it should be just as much about vehicle design, tuning, equipment selection and driver skill. I didn't see anything indicating low grip though. What I saw was a track that got a little rough but cars that were tuned for smooth tracks and jumps that had too much spring rate and damping. They cornered just fine because of the setup but any little bump upset the overall grip as the tires weren't staying on the ground. It wasn't a tire or sugar issue. Less damping would have made it more forgiving to drive but would have cost a little in ultimate cornering power.

You may have something there. I think Cavalleri tried a
soft setup in one of the practice sessions but the rear end was slapping around like a dick in a bucket.

Maybe not the adequat piston, meaning soft but not enought pack.

I'd imagine so. Come the finals it looked as though it behaved very differently.
Interesting to watch the pros play with the setup.

That's when you go to more holes of a smaller diameter but with similar total area. Low speed damping is unaffected, but pack is increased greatly

That's exactly what you'd expect to see. If a setup seems to have too much damping, just change the oil to see if it improves things. If it does, then go back and change the pistons to adjust pack. Change one thing at a time.

I ran through the spring balancing tests last night after changing my battery placement on my 22 3.0. I managed to get some good slow-mo footage on my phone of the process. I thought you guys might get a kick out of it!


First run-front too stiff:
https://i.imgur.com/yVVo28v.gif

A few adjustments later, pretty good balance:
https://i.imgur.com/pAcl738.gif

The difference between balanced and unbalanced is pretty obvious.

now run it and report back

What springs and oil are from both pictures? Thx

then report back as the gent above stated.... lol very curious

I agree but with one caveat, I wouldn't say "increased greatly". Last weekend at the track I advised one driver to go to 10 hole 1.1mm pistons (from 6 1.3 if not mistaken) to have more high speed damping and the difference was sizeable but not so great it would be a silver bullet.

Made me question why I use 5-6 hole pistons.

I'm eager to read Nick comments. My experience shows that balanced wheel rate (and roll distribution) makes the car very forgiving and controllable. It's like the car is less affected by changes in grip and it's predictable for the better.

There's no oil in the shocks in either of those gifs. You're watching just the effects of the springs on the car but slowed down enough to actually see it happen. It's the first step of balancing the shocks using fredswain's method.

I don't expect the car to drive radically different than it did before. I had already gone through this procedure on the car in the past. I only did it again because I wanted to change the weight distribution. If I changed the weight distribution without doing this procedure again, the car wouldn't be balanced!

Forgiving, controllable, and predictable are all words I would also use to describe how my cars drive when I run through the balancing procedures Fred has laid out in this thread.

One thing I've learned from having a pool of various buggies (1/8th and 1/10th) is that some trends pop out. One is that all measured 1/10ths have stiffer front springs than rear (TLR,AE...) and lower rear roll centre than front. While I am a proponent of higher rear roll centre than front and balanced wheel rates there's only so much you can do until you hit a compromise in the design, because all cars are copied, I mean designed, with certain handling manners in mind. The way those cars achieved those manners become what sets them apart as they sort of work the same way.

A clean sheet design approach is the better way forward, fredswain was designing something and I'm working on something too.

Would you mind letting me know which springs are in the unbalanced vs balanced tlr? I drive a 22 4.0 with a Kyosho white front and yok green rear. I'd rather just try your springs and oil to check it out thx!!!

That's the problem, are you running the same weight bias as him? Chances are you won't, you will be better of doing the method by yourself trust me.

On my MM TLR22 I was using the stock old red fronts and kyosho pink on the rear for a 62.8 rear bias.

I'll tell you my shock setup, but if you have a 4.0 with a laydown transmission your car's weight distribution will be different enough from mine that it really won't do you any good. A balanced setup on my car won't be a balanced setup on your car.

My car is a 22 3.0 with a standup transmission, an lcg shorty full forward, 20° front kick, and long VLA option. Both gifs are with the kit springs (I don't know off the top of my head what they are). The difference is the rear shock mounting location on the arm. In the first gif the shock is mounted on the inner-most hole. In the second gif the shock is mounted on the outer-most hole. Oil is 30wt front and rear. Pistons are 2x1.6mm up front and 2x1.8mm in the back.

It's great that you're interested in trying to find balance in your car. I really think you'll be happy with how a balanced car drives. If you have the time I encourage you to try the balance procedures on your own car. That's the only way you'll know for sure if your own car is balanced.