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I can pick up a novak 4.5 from a local racer for $60, think its worth it or spend another $30 and buy the sct system?
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The Novak or VXL system isn't faster than the 3800 despite the KV rating differences. The Castle is 4 pole so you can gear it higher without the heat issues you would see from a 2 pole motor like the Novak. Gear your Slash up if you need more speed and test results are worthless without temp ratings. For your testing make sure you are including those.
The thing the Novak does better is smoother power since it's sensored. But with all the 550 testing I have done over the last year the little Castle is king on power/torque and efficiency. |
I have a integy heatsink with dual fan set up so that would keep the motor cool anyways.
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I have the 3800 in my slash. running a 13 tooth pinon is a wate of time. you should put in a 15 or 16t. with the fan and running for 30 min on the track I was at 150deg. Im sure it will handle a 16/52 ot 17/54 easy.
Yes it has torque. massive accelration. and breaking... if you have traction the rear wheels might come off the ground. The 3500 vxl motor would never handle that. I am using traxxas speed controler with fan. 30 min and 110 deg. the only problem is I have to set the radio to only give 87% throttle. once the motor revs to the moon the esc cuts in and out. set this was I dont need the minimal extra speed. I am glad someone started a post like this. the comparisons are great. can anyone add about smoothness with the 3800 vrs the havoc with sensor. |
I would most likely be running 14/54 gearing in the truck for a max of 20min
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Originally Posted by SaladFork
(Post 9034328)
The Novak or VXL system isn't faster than the 3800 despite the KV rating differences. The Castle is 4 pole so you can gear it higher without the heat issues you would see from a 2 pole motor like the Novak. Gear your Slash up if you need more speed and test results are worthless without temp ratings. For your testing make sure you are including those.
The thing the Novak does better is smoother power since it's sensored. But with all the 550 testing I have done over the last year the little Castle is king on power/torque and efficiency. I do believe you can go above 15/54 if you run a MMP which is what I have. I could definitely imagine that the 4-pole runs cooler than the Novak. Especially with the fan. I'm running my Novak at 13/54 and comparing it to my Castle at 14/54 and the Novak "feels" much faster. I can say this... the combo is limited by the ESC. It will be about the same speed at the VXL system. So if you want the 3800kv 4-pole then I recommend pairing it with the MMP. Buy them individually or sell the Sidewinder ESC on Ebay, etc... How high have people geared these motors? |
Originally Posted by hammer down
(Post 9034494)
can anyone add about smoothness with the 3800 vrs the havoc with sensor.
I've run: 1. VXL Combo: 13, 14, and 15T with no heat issues 2. Castle SCT 3800 Combo: 13, 14, and 15T with some ESC heat issues. 14 was the sweet spot 3. Novak 4.5/MMP: 13T with no heat issues I hung on to my 4-pole until I've tested the Novak enough to decide which to keep. Plus I figure I can have a backup motor :) Btw, I love the MMP ESC, I highly recommend! |
I'm planning on running my integy dual heatsink fan set up on the motor and taking the motor fan and putting that over the esc to keep the temps down. Looks like I'll be buying the sct combo since the guy is supposed to have the 4.5 sold to another racer. Thanks for all the help and info!
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Originally Posted by Slash&Blitz
(Post 9034789)
I'm planning on running my integy dual heatsink fan set up on the motor and taking the motor fan and putting that over the esc to keep the temps down. Looks like I'll be buying the sct combo since the guy is supposed to have the 4.5 sold to another racer. Thanks for all the help and info!
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I'm starting to see the light here. I ran drag races against a VXL system with the Novak 550 4.5 and MMP and it ran about the same speed. It would pull eventually but the distance it took wasn't really worth it. It did run cooler than the VXL but not as cool as the Castle 4-pole motor.
They are all three about the same acceleration/speed within the first 60 feet or so but temps are (coolest to warmest): 1. Castle 3800 2. Novak 550 4.5T 3. Velineon 3500 Give that It would seem you folks are correct. The 3800 is probably the fastest and given the price, geez, it's a no brainer. |
Originally Posted by djroberts
(Post 9034284)
I have the Castle 3800 4-pole and the Novak Ballistic 550 4.5T. I've done some detailed comparisons between the Castle SCT and VXL setups.
In street drag racing both at 13T the 3800 is nearly exactly the same speed as the Traxxas VXL system. This just shows you how impressive the Velineon 3500 is. The Velineon is longer than the Castle but the Castle looks a bit fatter and is of course 4-pole. In my opinion if your looking for a significant speed or acceleration enhancement then you will not get it out of the 3800 unless perhaps you can gear it higher than the Velineon. But... I do have to say that you'll notice more torque with the Castle. It brakes harder and pull up the front end more aggressively so a quick hop off a steep jump might be better with the Castle. I've only been running the Novak for one day and my impression is that it's faster than both and has more torque than both motors. Top speed it should definitely be faster on 2S with the same size pinion since it's 5000kv. I also think acceleration is noticeably better on the Novak but I haven't had the chance to put it head to head yet. My recommendation is: 1. If money is no object, get the Novak 2. If money is sparse and you have a roller, get the Castle SCT system 3. If money is sparse and you have the VXL, keep it :) https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_x...akvsCastle.JPG I plan to race a VXL system again this weekend so I can report back with my findings. the 3800 castle can be geared taller than the 4.5 and stay cooler doing so< which will produce more speed than the 4.5 could dream of doing safely |
Originally Posted by 84 GT 5.0
(Post 9044958)
the 3800 castle can be geared taller than the 4.5 and stay cooler doing so< which will produce more speed than the 4.5 could dream of doing safely
I was running 14/54 on it and it was extremely cool. What gearing would you suggest for a Slash 4x4 with an MMP? |
Originally Posted by SaladFork
(Post 9034328)
The Novak or VXL system isn't faster than the 3800 despite the KV rating differences. The Castle is 4 pole so you can gear it higher without the heat issues you would see from a 2 pole motor like the Novak. Gear your Slash up if you need more speed and test results are worthless without temp ratings. For your testing make sure you are including those.
The thing the Novak does better is smoother power since it's sensored. But with all the 550 testing I have done over the last year the little Castle is king on power/torque and efficiency. I saw this weekend first hand a 4.5 Novak and a 4 pole 3800 in a buddies SCTE. The 3800 is hands down faster because you can push the gear & see no increase in heat. The problem was it never got hot,the RX8 never got hot but the battery got so hot it puffed the pack. Something always has to give somewhere, everything in all racing is a trade off. The trick is to find a good safe balance with all motor/ESC/ batteries so nothing is over heating. He offered to let me run his 3800 4 pole in my SCTE, but I declined due to I like my battery packs to much...LOL" My Novak runs fast enough to win my share of races and my batteries/ESC & motor never get real hot. When I started racing karts at 4 years old my Dad who was a late model stock racer kept druming into me (everything is a trade off, always remember that") and he's been right through my Kart racing,Stock car racing,drag racing,motorcycle road racing and then R/C racing.... The trick is to find the trade off you are comfortible with, it doesn't matter what anyone else's is.... ;) |
Originally Posted by Chuck 21
(Post 9050795)
I saw this weekend first hand a 4.5 Novak and a 4 pole 3800 in a buddies
SCTE. The 3800 is hands down faster because you can push the gear & see no increase in heat. The problem was it never got hot,the RX8 never got hot but the battery got so hot it puffed the pack. Something always has to give somewhere, everything in all racing is a trade off. The trick is to find a good safe balance with all motor/ESC/ batteries so nothing is over heating. He offered to let me run his 3800 4 pole in my SCTE, but I declined due to I like my battery packs to much...LOL" My Novak runs fast enough to win my share of races and my batteries/ESC & motor never get real hot. When I started racing karts at 4 years old my Dad who was a late model stock racer kept druming into me (everything is a trade off, always remember that") and he's been right through my Kart racing,Stock car racing,drag racing,motorcycle road racing and then R/C racing.... The trick is to find the trade off you are comfortible with, it doesn't matter what anyone else's is.... ;) I still think the 1410 is a good choice, if not the best choice for the Losi on 2S As you know I get to test quite a bit of motors in different trucks. The Castle's been overall the best all around motor in all the test minus being as smooth as sensored. |
Originally Posted by SaladFork
(Post 9050852)
I ran a 18T with the 40T spur this weekend for a few packs, back to back. Battery was warm but not like it was with the Tekin 5.5 or Novak 4.5. I puffed my 50C 5600 Fantom pack using the Tekin. I think with this truck on 2S regardless of which motor you use, the packs are going to get warm. I'm not sold on the 550's on 2S in the Losi. Get the truck under 6.5lbs and it shouldn't be an issue. I never ran into these issues with the Hyper 10 or Jammin.
I still think the 1410 is a good choice, if not the best choice for the Losi on 2S As you know I get to test quite a bit of motors in different trucks. The Castle's been overall the best all around motor in all the test minus being as smooth as sensored. Not knocking the 3800 Castle at all.. Just pointing out it probably is not for everyone on every track and I'm sure not knocking anything you have to say about any product in R/C LOL" ;) I hope I did not come across that way either? |
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