ScottKelly911

iTrader: (9)

I was inspired by the thread asking about battery technology to post this thread. Earlier I was drinking a bottle of water and couldn't help but think to myself how awesomely strong and resistant to tearing these water bottles are. Then I thought, why doesn't someone make bodies out of this stuff. Especially shortcourse since they take such a tough beating, more so than any other class. The material is called polyethylene terephthalate. Basically it's a type of Polyester. Ultra strong, very lightweight, inexpensive to produce. I wonder if Proline or any of the other body companies have ever researched making bodies of this material (or other materials for that matter) which would be stronger and more crack resistant. Part of me think's they don't want to because they'd lose business if you only had to buy 1 or 2 bodies a year. Another issue might be paint. I'm not sure what kind of paint would stick to this material. I think a good place for companies to experiment with this material would be 1/10 scale 2wd Buggy wings! They take a ton of abuse and break super easily. This material may be just the perfect thing to keep them intact for more than a weekend. What's your guys thoughts? I'd love to hear Matt from Proline or another person who's in the industry of making bodies.

chiro972

iTrader: (10)

Lexan is stronger than PT for the same thickness. Your water bottle seems strong because it is many times thicker than your lexan (polypropylene) body. The advantage it has is it is more flexible. I think it is too flexible. If you could get it thin enough to not weigh a metric ton, I think it wouldn't hold it's shape too well.

Ridley

iTrader: (13)

Lexan is polycarbonate, not polypropylene.

Water bottles are far thinner than the lexan bodies, yet, they seem far tougher to me as well. the following chart would support that observation. Appears to me your statement about PET vs Lexan strength is WAY wrong.

As for not holding it's shape. 2 liter bottles seem to do quite well with that, and are ridiculously thin. Polycarbonate paint sticks well to them too, I use clear ones to practice painting on before I mess up a 50$ body.

I'd say the body companies are afraid to make a product that lasts so they can keep selling more crap.

PET is also cheaper than lexan, so that argument is out as well.

Polyester(PET) vs Polycarbonate chart:

PROPERTIES POLYESTER (.001"THK) POLYCARBONATE UNIT
PHYSICAL
Tensile Strength 28,000 8400-8800 PSI
Yield Strength 15,000 4620 PSI
Tensile Modulus 600,000 300,000 PSI
Tear Strength 1,800 1100 g/mil
Folding Endurance 100,000 250-400 FOLDS
Density 1.4 1.2 g/cc
THERMAL
Coefficient of Thermal Expansion .000023 cm/cm/C .00007 m/m/C -
Shrinkage (Machine) 2.0-5.0 (@190 C) .28 (@300 F) % @ 190C
Shrinkage (Transverse) 0.0-5.0 (@190C) - % @ 190C
Glass Transition Temp. 68 C 275 F Degrees F
ELECTRICAL
Dielectric Strength 3000 400 V / mil
Volume Resistivity 10 To 17TH 10 To 16TH OHMS / CM
Surface Resistivity 10 To 15TH 10 To 15TH OHMS / SQ
CHEMICAL RESISTANCE
Acetic Acid 1 1 1 = Resistant
2 = Fair Resistant
3 = Poor Resistant
Ammonia 1 2
Hydrochloric Acid (10%) 1 1
Sulfuric Acid (3%) 1 1
Ketones 1 3
Esters 1 3
Aromatic Hydrocarbons 1 3
Chlorinated Compounds 1 3
Grease, Oils, Fats 1 1
Chlorinated Phenols 3 3
ADVANTAGES / DISADVANTAGES
POLYESTER POLYCARBONATE
Excellent Life Cycling Poor Life Cycling
Excellent Folding Endurance Poor Folding Endurance
Good Solvent Resistance Poor Solvent Resistance
Poor Ink Adhesion Excellent Ink Adhesion
Good Hydrolic Stability Good Embossing Height
Poor Dimensional Stability Poor Hydrolic Stability
- Excellent Dimensional Stability
- Prone To Work Hardening
- Pre-Textured Surfaces Readily Available

chiro972

iTrader: (10)

Your right, lexan is polycarbonate. Two litre soda bottles are PETE. I was thinking he was discussing a water bottle like you use on a bicycle. (sorry, years of bicycle racing) Those are made from HDPE and that's what I was thinking he was referring to. That material is very flexy and would have to be heavier than lexan to really hold a shape. Gotta go back and re-read my organic chemistry text.

I did some reading and it may come down to ease of forming and polycarbonate is highly impact resistant. I could not find any data comparing the impact resistance of PC VS PETE, so I guess you'd have to ask someone like proline

Ridley

iTrader: (13)

I'm definitely interested in hearing what they have to say

Or, it could be like many things in RC...it gets mentioned on a forum..and BAM, some company claims to have come up with a brand new breakthrough technology and product I'm pretty sure 90% of most RC companies R&D is scanning the forums taking other peoples ideas

lowroad

iTrader: (79)

so you want them to make bodies that dont break? Seems like a bad business plan for them.

koopesv

iTrader: (18)

Just use some shoe goo.

Lightdancer

idk man. If they made bodies that didn't break as easily then I would buy them. Sure I might not buy as many but if the material costs half as much and they sold them for the same price then why not. Also the races that run by me buy new bodies just to buy new bodies. I always feel like I have the worst looking body in the crowd cause I don't buy a new one every month.

DG40

iTrader: (5)

Body by Nalgene would be very cool... but heavy

ScottKelly911

iTrader: (9)

Ridely, thanks for that infomation. I think ur post really hit it on the head. Stronger lighter and less expensive to possibly even produce.

Chiro, hahaha no wasnt talking bike riding water bottles, was talking about my bottle of Aqua Fina i was drinking so yes the same as a 2 liter soda bottle lol

I agree i too think the body companies are afraid to do it because of loss of profits. But once someone does it, they'll corner the market. I'd be willing to pay double the current costs or more if it meant not having to re-mask and depaint bodies too often. To the person who said shoo goo, i dont know how a body made entirely of shoo goo would hold up :P but seriously, i do shoo goo mine in the stress areas, but that gets old doing that everytime i get a new body not to mention it gets heavy.

ScottKelly911

iTrader: (9)

Matt @ Pro-Line

I'm not going to get too in depth here but we certainly don't design bodies to fail. Our goal is to make customers happy with our products and we are always exploring ways to make things better. Polycarbonate is really tough stuff but shortcourse bodies clearly take a lot of abuse. We know adding thickness improves durability but it also costs and weighs substantially more. For the majority of our customers, one or both of these issues are deal-breakers.

racer53

Bodies that wouldn't break...hmmm...that makes too much sense, must be a bad idea...

ScottKelly911

iTrader: (9)

Matt, thanks for posting in this thread. I don't know what you do over there at Proline, but I'm sure you have some insight as to R & D that goes on over there even if you're not directly involved. Have you guys looked at other materials which may be useful to use in place of Lexan? I think for pretty much every class of racing/bashing, Lexan is plenty sufficient. But with Shortcourse, it's quite evident that the durability of Lexan bodies on these trucks can be improved. Please don't take that as a personal shot against Proline, because it's all companies that produce them. I just think that for Shortcourse bodies and 1/10 scale buggy wings, another material may be more suitable. I can understand if and why body companies never looked into any other material for bodies since up until recently, there hadn't been a need. Lexan was durable, light and inexpensive enough for RC cars up until now. Can you give us a little insight as to any possible advances in body materials we might see in the future. I'm honestly getting really sick of buying new bodies so often. This is the only class I've ever gone through bodies so quickly.

About adding cost and/or weight I think the majority of us would gladly pay extra if it meant more durable bodies. I've seen people post that time and time again on many different threads on many different forums. So, to quote Field Of Dreams..."Build it, and they will come". As for the weight issue, I don't think the extra weight will really make a difference. We're not talking about strapping bricks to the top of the car, what's an additional .015-.020 of added material add to the weight of an unpainted body? I'm not going to be part of the conspiracy theorists and say that companies protect their investment by making bodies that break and crack as to protect their profits (sure it's crossed my mind) because that would mean they're all colluding together. When infact, I think if one company broke that collusion or a new company came out that made great quality and durable bodies, they'd corner the market and force the other companies to follow suit. I just think that there hasn't been a need in the past which has kept everything status quo.

Edit: just read in your sig that you do R & D, sounds like you're EXACTLY the person we'd love to hear from!

Matt @ Pro-Line

The material we use is the best stuff we have tested. We have and will continue to discuss the option of using thicker material.