Grass roots Lipo Fire
03-22-2011, 07:12 PM
#47
Understand your point, but I’m not sure your cost comparison is entirely fair. Aren’t you comparing a top of the line hard case full retail price to a HK direct soft case (possibly without shipping)?
I have a couple ROAR legal hard case 4S 5000mAh batts, from one of my local shops, that cost $100 each.
Not positive, but I think some of the premium brand soft cases from the same shop are more expensive than that, or at least close.
I have a couple ROAR legal hard case 4S 5000mAh batts, from one of my local shops, that cost $100 each.
Not positive, but I think some of the premium brand soft cases from the same shop are more expensive than that, or at least close.
I hate to see a class drowned in rules. Especially when nitro 8th scale has so few. Think about it, do you have to use ROAR approved nitro fuel? Why not, its dangerous. Are there rules about how many ports, what brand, and what pipe you have to use?... Nope. As long as its a .21, you're good. Likewise, E 8th scale should be equally free to advance and push the technology and price range to compete. That's how the nitros did it, I don't understand why we can't stick to the same formula for their brushless counterparts.
There's this FUGLY rumor floating around the net that you must spend big $$ on batteries or you get junk. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is perpetuated by fanbois, snobs and hard headed asshats. These guys will straight up perpetuate the LIE that you must spend $200+ on a 4S battery, with a nifty label and thin plastic case. This?... I ask you... THIS is supposed to resist the impacts feasible in an 8th scale buggy/truggy crash? Are you $HITING ME?! HA, I say, double HA! If the impact can get through the body, and/or the battery tray, no THIN plastic case is gonna stop the inevitable Flare.
Besides, most of the Flares I've seen happen were due to Negligence, or bad wires, not severe impacts. A thin plastic case, nifty label and ROAR's blessing can't do anything for that. Forgive my spirited response, I'm not trying to attack you.
03-22-2011, 07:23 PM
#48
Please people, realize how dangerous it is to breathe lipo smoke. I had a soft case go up in my Losi 2.0 a couple of years ago at Carolinas RC indoor track.I lawndarted off the huge quad jump on the back straight and folded the bottom two cells puncturing them. Me and the race director got it out before any damage was done to the car, but i inhaled a couple of full breaths of smoke and i couldnt breath right for 2 months. I woke up everynight gasping for air and coughing to no end, i guess the lipo residue in my lungs would spread out when i was laying down. It was terrible and i really got worried about my health for a week or two. Im not saying to let the car burn, but HOLD YOUR BREATH while snatching the lipo out! It was great to save the car though, without a doubt!
Another thing to keep in mind is that when you have a lipo puncture and fire, you can go ahead and bet the ESC, RX, and servo are likely to go out in the near future. It happened to me within 3 weeks. A week later ESC popped, which had been seemingly bulletproof before the incident. The RX followed shortly after. My JR 8711 was a beast and kept going.
For softcase lipos, it is a very good idea to make a shield that forms a horse shoe "long ways" and wrap with large shrink to prevent the cells from being folded or distorted in any way. For losi cars its a good idea to modify the battery tray and run a strap long ways along with the three horizontal straps. I did it and it works plus its dirt cheap to make. And obviously.....keep those wires away from the spur and CVDs!!
Not trying to tell anyone "how its done", just sharing my experience with Electric 1/8 buggy and how i overcame the difficulties! I ended up absolutely loving the class and had lots of success with my buggy. Good luck guys and have fun!
Another thing to keep in mind is that when you have a lipo puncture and fire, you can go ahead and bet the ESC, RX, and servo are likely to go out in the near future. It happened to me within 3 weeks. A week later ESC popped, which had been seemingly bulletproof before the incident. The RX followed shortly after. My JR 8711 was a beast and kept going.
For softcase lipos, it is a very good idea to make a shield that forms a horse shoe "long ways" and wrap with large shrink to prevent the cells from being folded or distorted in any way. For losi cars its a good idea to modify the battery tray and run a strap long ways along with the three horizontal straps. I did it and it works plus its dirt cheap to make. And obviously.....keep those wires away from the spur and CVDs!!
Not trying to tell anyone "how its done", just sharing my experience with Electric 1/8 buggy and how i overcame the difficulties! I ended up absolutely loving the class and had lots of success with my buggy. Good luck guys and have fun!
I once ran in a 30 minute main. My pit guys made a boo boo, and couldn't get the straps on. I finished the main(ran 20 minutes on the first pack, the last 10 on the second) with NO STRAPS, the Velcro alone held the pack in place. Granted, I had no severe crashes or lawn darts. Combined with the straps, that battery wasn't going anywhere. I got my 8ight E in Oct. of 08. NEVER ever had a Flare.
03-22-2011, 07:27 PM
#49
WOW, that's the cheapest ROAR approved packs I've heard of. Got a link?
I hate to see a class drowned in rules. Especially when nitro 8th scale has so few. Think about it, do you have to use ROAR approved nitro fuel? Why not, its dangerous. Are there rules about how many ports, what brand, and what pipe you have to use?... Nope. As long as its a .21, you're good. Likewise, E 8th scale should be equally free to advance and push the technology and price range to compete. That's how the nitros did it, I don't understand why we can't stick to the same formula for their brushless counterparts.
There's this FUGLY rumor floating around the net that you must spend big $$ on batteries or you get junk. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is perpetuated by fanbois, snobs and hard headed asshats. These guys will straight up perpetuate the LIE that you must spend $200+ on a 4S battery, with a nifty label and thin plastic case. This?... I ask you... THIS is supposed to resist the impacts feasible in an 8th scale buggy/truggy crash? Are you $HITING ME?! HA, I say, double HA! If the impact can get through the body, and/or the battery tray, no THIN plastic case is gonna stop the inevitable Flare. Besides, most of the Flares I've seen happen were due to Negligence, or bad wires, not severe impacts. A thin plastic case, nifty label and ROAR's blessing can't do anything for that.
Forgive my spirited response, I'm not trying to attack you.
I hate to see a class drowned in rules. Especially when nitro 8th scale has so few. Think about it, do you have to use ROAR approved nitro fuel? Why not, its dangerous. Are there rules about how many ports, what brand, and what pipe you have to use?... Nope. As long as its a .21, you're good. Likewise, E 8th scale should be equally free to advance and push the technology and price range to compete. That's how the nitros did it, I don't understand why we can't stick to the same formula for their brushless counterparts.
There's this FUGLY rumor floating around the net that you must spend big $$ on batteries or you get junk. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is perpetuated by fanbois, snobs and hard headed asshats. These guys will straight up perpetuate the LIE that you must spend $200+ on a 4S battery, with a nifty label and thin plastic case. This?... I ask you... THIS is supposed to resist the impacts feasible in an 8th scale buggy/truggy crash? Are you $HITING ME?! HA, I say, double HA! If the impact can get through the body, and/or the battery tray, no THIN plastic case is gonna stop the inevitable Flare.
Besides, most of the Flares I've seen happen were due to Negligence, or bad wires, not severe impacts. A thin plastic case, nifty label and ROAR's blessing can't do anything for that. Forgive my spirited response, I'm not trying to attack you.
03-23-2011, 08:04 AM
#50
Tech Regular
iTrader: (12)
Here's a link for a $66 4s hardcase battery from them that looks to be listed on ROAR:
http://www.hobbypartz.com/gensace4s40c.html
Personally, at those prices, I like the extra security of a little bit of hard plastic surrounding some very thin tin-foil wrapped lipo cells...
-jlt
03-23-2011, 08:07 AM
#51
Tech Apprentice
Still Pictures
There are some still pictures of the car and other race pictures as well here
screaminscrews.com/grrs_rnd3/grrs_rnd3.html
The first few are of the car - b - que
screaminscrews.com/grrs_rnd3/grrs_rnd3.html
The first few are of the car - b - que
03-23-2011, 08:39 AM
#52
OUCH! 
Thanks for the links Jacket, I was unaware that such packs exist. This makes me a little less frustrated with the way BL 8th scale has been going on a national level. ROAR can make or break some classes, this is one I'd hope the rules wouldn't suffocate. Now we just have to break them of the 4S limit ideology. A 4S flare is really not much less dangerous than a 5S flare. A 4S system may run too hot on a large out door track in the deep south.
This pic shows that not ALL center diff gears are completely exposed:
Thanks for the links Jacket, I was unaware that such packs exist. This makes me a little less frustrated with the way BL 8th scale has been going on a national level. ROAR can make or break some classes, this is one I'd hope the rules wouldn't suffocate. Now we just have to break them of the 4S limit ideology. A 4S flare is really not much less dangerous than a 5S flare. A 4S system may run too hot on a large out door track in the deep south.
This pic shows that not ALL center diff gears are completely exposed:
03-23-2011, 10:41 AM
#53
I for one have learned that those hard cases dont protect the battery from shorting itself out. I bought a maxamps hardcase from my lhs for $190 & the thing died within 6 months. Now im on a $22 Turnigy. Those 3s Turnigy's sit SNUG in a slash battery tray, so no bumping around going on there.
03-23-2011, 10:42 AM
#54
No, not at least as far as I know (the etc). Haven’t experienced that problem myself thankfully, my condolences on your run of bad experience.
03-23-2011, 10:43 AM
#55
Please people, realize how dangerous it is to breathe lipo smoke. I had a soft case go up in my Losi 2.0 a couple of years ago at Carolinas RC indoor track.I lawndarted off the huge quad jump on the back straight and folded the bottom two cells puncturing them. Me and the race director got it out before any damage was done to the car, but i inhaled a couple of full breaths of smoke and i couldnt breath right for 2 months. I woke up everynight gasping for air and coughing to no end, i guess the lipo residue in my lungs would spread out when i was laying down. It was terrible and i really got worried about my health for a week or two. Im not saying to let the car burn, but HOLD YOUR BREATH while snatching the lipo out! It was great to save the car though, without a doubt!
Another thing to keep in mind is that when you have a lipo puncture and fire, you can go ahead and bet the ESC, RX, and servo are likely to go out in the near future. It happened to me within 3 weeks. A week later ESC popped, which had been seemingly bulletproof before the incident. The RX followed shortly after. My JR 8711 was a beast and kept going.
For softcase lipos, it is a very good idea to make a shield that forms a horse shoe "long ways" and wrap with large shrink to prevent the cells from being folded or distorted in any way. For losi cars its a good idea to modify the battery tray and run a strap long ways along with the three horizontal straps. I did it and it works plus its dirt cheap to make. And obviously.....keep those wires away from the spur and CVDs!!
Not trying to tell anyone "how its done", just sharing my experience with Electric 1/8 buggy and how i overcame the difficulties! I ended up absolutely loving the class and had lots of success with my buggy. Good luck guys and have fun!
Another thing to keep in mind is that when you have a lipo puncture and fire, you can go ahead and bet the ESC, RX, and servo are likely to go out in the near future. It happened to me within 3 weeks. A week later ESC popped, which had been seemingly bulletproof before the incident. The RX followed shortly after. My JR 8711 was a beast and kept going.
For softcase lipos, it is a very good idea to make a shield that forms a horse shoe "long ways" and wrap with large shrink to prevent the cells from being folded or distorted in any way. For losi cars its a good idea to modify the battery tray and run a strap long ways along with the three horizontal straps. I did it and it works plus its dirt cheap to make. And obviously.....keep those wires away from the spur and CVDs!!
Not trying to tell anyone "how its done", just sharing my experience with Electric 1/8 buggy and how i overcame the difficulties! I ended up absolutely loving the class and had lots of success with my buggy. Good luck guys and have fun!
Thank you for sharing though, a good reminder for all. If I may add, besides being toxic, the fumes are corrosive. I’ve read stories of having to replace many home electronics after a charging mishap that wasn’t caught.
If you see smoke, like you say, hold your breath, get the thing outside as quickly as possible, downwind of any others. Never charge unattended or unaware, be extra careful with packs that have been damaged in any way, etc.
Can’t wait until dilithium crystals are finally available. I mean we already have lithium, so we’re sort of halfway there I figure…..
03-23-2011, 10:46 AM
#56
WOW, that's the cheapest ROAR approved packs I've heard of. Got a link?
I hate to see a class drowned in rules. Especially when nitro 8th scale has so few. Think about it, do you have to use ROAR approved nitro fuel? Why not, its dangerous. Are there rules about how many ports, what brand, and what pipe you have to use?... Nope. As long as its a .21, you're good. Likewise, E 8th scale should be equally free to advance and push the technology and price range to compete. That's how the nitros did it, I don't understand why we can't stick to the same formula for their brushless counterparts.
There's this FUGLY rumor floating around the net that you must spend big $$ on batteries or you get junk. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is perpetuated by fanbois, snobs and hard headed asshats. These guys will straight up perpetuate the LIE that you must spend $200+ on a 4S battery, with a nifty label and thin plastic case. This?... I ask you... THIS is supposed to resist the impacts feasible in an 8th scale buggy/truggy crash? Are you $HITING ME?! HA, I say, double HA! If the impact can get through the body, and/or the battery tray, no THIN plastic case is gonna stop the inevitable Flare. Besides, most of the Flares I've seen happen were due to Negligence, or bad wires, not severe impacts. A thin plastic case, nifty label and ROAR's blessing can't do anything for that.
Forgive my spirited response, I'm not trying to attack you.
I hate to see a class drowned in rules. Especially when nitro 8th scale has so few. Think about it, do you have to use ROAR approved nitro fuel? Why not, its dangerous. Are there rules about how many ports, what brand, and what pipe you have to use?... Nope. As long as its a .21, you're good. Likewise, E 8th scale should be equally free to advance and push the technology and price range to compete. That's how the nitros did it, I don't understand why we can't stick to the same formula for their brushless counterparts.
There's this FUGLY rumor floating around the net that you must spend big $$ on batteries or you get junk. Nothing could be further from the truth. It is perpetuated by fanbois, snobs and hard headed asshats. These guys will straight up perpetuate the LIE that you must spend $200+ on a 4S battery, with a nifty label and thin plastic case. This?... I ask you... THIS is supposed to resist the impacts feasible in an 8th scale buggy/truggy crash? Are you $HITING ME?! HA, I say, double HA! If the impact can get through the body, and/or the battery tray, no THIN plastic case is gonna stop the inevitable Flare.
Besides, most of the Flares I've seen happen were due to Negligence, or bad wires, not severe impacts. A thin plastic case, nifty label and ROAR's blessing can't do anything for that. Forgive my spirited response, I'm not trying to attack you.
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CCgQ8wIwAg#
I tend to support the rules more than some, I think there are significant drawbacks to the limited rules approach as well. Not as much for experienced guys, but for beginners. Being a flashlight guy I can’t really comment too much on the Nitro parallel, but it doesn’t appear to me they have the same level of instant power that E8 has, which I think is more likely to cause problems as the class expands and starts to attract newbies.
I agree that top of the line batteries are typically not needed in E8 or modified classes. Generally nobody is lacking power in those classes these days. With the overall improvements in lipos perhaps not even much in 1/10 stock any more, although it did until recently. Still I find it perplexing/ironic that on this site, which has a significant race perspective, there seems to be little interest in seriously comparing various batteries. Some other sites that seem to have little competitive aspect to them have a lot more interest, sometimes with rather extensive comparisons. And yes, there are some rather glaring examples of not getting what you pay for (the most obvious example has already been mentioned) and others of fairly good value-performance. From what I have seen there might be more performance to be gained (or loss) these days from proper storage procedures in many cases.
No problem, I’m aware of, and share, your passion. But you seem to keep it mostly on the topic at hand and despite some general comments don’t get too personal. Although the clarification is probably a good thing and is appreciated.
03-23-2011, 01:44 PM
#57
That's great news, I'm glad to see ROAR approved packs at affordable prices. That means the class will continue to grow, unabated by the rules.
Not being into nitro, I can see your view of the issue. I've been on both sides. I got into nitro 8th scale as the class was exploding about 6 years ago. I agree, its kinda scary to see a 7 lb+ nitro powered land missile in the hands of an aggressive noob(I can't tell you how many runaways I've seen). But I don't think the BL counterparts are all that much more dangerous. I've seen far more burns from hot engines, than skid marks on people from E cars. I also don't believe a 4S limit will make a big difference in safety, just the efficiency of the electronics. Like I said, big tracks should allow higher voltage, otherwise they'll have to limit the race lengths to submit to the 4S limit. My focus is on the racing itself, since the danger aspect is minimal.
I tend to support the rules more than some, I think there are significant drawbacks to the limited rules approach as well. Not as much for experienced guys, but for beginners. Being a flashlight guy I can’t really comment too much on the Nitro parallel, but it doesn’t appear to me they have the same level of instant power that E8 has, which I think is more likely to cause problems as the class expands and starts to attract newbies.
03-23-2011, 02:06 PM
#58
I can’t help but wonder if you have experienced a corrosion issue, based on your signature. I mucked up once and dropped some hardcases in the cooler. Despite efforts to dry them out I ended up loosing a couple to tab/connection corrosion. Don’t know what would have happened had they been softcased, but this clearly is not what hardcases were intended for, the case certainly makes drying them out more problematic. I agree that hardcases may not be a good idea for your use, at least without some good water proofing.
03-23-2011, 06:18 PM
#59
Man, that sux! It IS metal burning when these things turn into flares. I found a simple solution early on. I didn't want the pack to slide at all, and the easiest way to keep it planted... Velcro. You can buy the stuff in rolls. One long strip on the pack, with its counterpart the full length of the tray.
I once ran in a 30 minute main. My pit guys made a boo boo, and couldn't get the straps on. I finished the main(ran 20 minutes on the first pack, the last 10 on the second) with NO STRAPS, the Velcro alone held the pack in place. Granted, I had no severe crashes or lawn darts. Combined with the straps, that battery wasn't going anywhere. I got my 8ight E in Oct. of 08. NEVER ever had a Flare.
I once ran in a 30 minute main. My pit guys made a boo boo, and couldn't get the straps on. I finished the main(ran 20 minutes on the first pack, the last 10 on the second) with NO STRAPS, the Velcro alone held the pack in place. Granted, I had no severe crashes or lawn darts. Combined with the straps, that battery wasn't going anywhere. I got my 8ight E in Oct. of 08. NEVER ever had a Flare.
03-23-2011, 06:34 PM
#60
There's no way my lipo would ever come out of my car if I see it smoking. I'm not getting close enough to that battery to pull the straps off. I value my hands not being seriously burned. Who here hasn't seen a video of a lipo cell shooting a 4 foot flame out in a random direction at some point in time after it starts smoking. Sticking yer nubs in there is just a gamble, and everything in that car is easy to replace -- a life time with fubared hands is not worth the risk.
This goes for any of my cars -- my 1/8e or 1/10ths. I run all hard cases, but one of my hard case packs, the 4s reedy in my 1/8e, did puff on me. It actually started puffing in my ammo storage box. I pulled it out one day, all cells measured great, but the case was starting to split. Its being warrantied right now after sitting in a salt water bath for a day or so to discharge it.
I guess that's one instance of a hard case going bad where I caught it easily. The battery was working brilliantly before this too.
Personally, I always use the hard case. I don't care if I can see the cells puff a little earlier with a soft case, the hard case definitely protects from punctures and direct cell impacts better. That's my view.
Wayne
This goes for any of my cars -- my 1/8e or 1/10ths. I run all hard cases, but one of my hard case packs, the 4s reedy in my 1/8e, did puff on me. It actually started puffing in my ammo storage box. I pulled it out one day, all cells measured great, but the case was starting to split. Its being warrantied right now after sitting in a salt water bath for a day or so to discharge it.
I guess that's one instance of a hard case going bad where I caught it easily. The battery was working brilliantly before this too.
Personally, I always use the hard case. I don't care if I can see the cells puff a little earlier with a soft case, the hard case definitely protects from punctures and direct cell impacts better. That's my view.
Wayne