Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric Off-Road
tenshock sc401  short course Brushless MOTOR >

tenshock sc401 short course Brushless MOTOR

tenshock sc401 short course Brushless MOTOR

Old 06-02-2011, 11:15 PM
  #301  
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,465
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by shadoflame View Post
suppose the castle 3800kv and tenshock 4600kv were geared the same, how do they compare?

i know it's apples and oranges since the tenshock is much longer, but i dont want to get the 4600 and be unable to control it or get the 4000 and be dissapointed in top speed.

edit. this will be for a sc10 4x4.
I would imagine they would make similar power, the 4600 will probably run cooler

4600 actually has a loaded kv of around 4000 so gearing would be fairly similar to the 3800

Cheers
crusey_aus is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:16 PM
  #302  
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,465
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by shadoflame View Post
what speed control are yall using with these motors?

im planning on using a MMP with either the 4000kv or 4600kv.

are there any issues with using the max pro?

also, how is the 4000kv vs the castle 1410 3800kv ?

I have used both the MMP and the Trackstar 150 (Toro 8)

No difference in power but the Trackstar runs a lot cooler

4600 has a loaded kv of around 4000 so there would be little between them

Cheers
crusey_aus is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:39 PM
  #303  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Ridley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,460
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by shadoflame View Post
suppose the castle 3800kv and tenshock 4600kv were geared the same, how do they compare?

i know it's apples and oranges since the tenshock is much longer, but i dont want to get the 4600 and be unable to control it or get the 4000 and be dissapointed in top speed.

edit. this will be for a sc10 4x4.
The gearing is WAY different for the 2. In a Losi for example, the 3800 needs around a 15 tooth pinion, and the 4600 tenshock needs about an 11.

I don't think you'll be disappointed in either tenshock offering. The 4000 will be more than fast enough in the sc10 4x4.
Ridley is offline  
Old 06-02-2011, 11:44 PM
  #304  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Ridley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,460
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by larlev View Post
stock scte.....is the 4600 the better choice? I need a second motor and would like to try something other than castle.

I run a 1415 now geared 18-20t on 2s
If you are all stock, I'd go for the 4000kv. As you modify and go lighter, the 4600 become more viable. I run the 4600 personally, but I have done extensive modifications to get my scte down to 6lbs 1 ounce, ready to set on the track.

The Tenshock will obliterate your 1415, you will be very happy with the difference in power. I tested both, and the Tenshock is night and day more powerful.
Ridley is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:07 AM
  #305  
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,465
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Ridley View Post
The Tenshock will obliterate your 1415, you will be very happy with the difference in power. I tested both, and the Tenshock is night and day more powerful.
Not sure how you come to that conclusion mate

Feel free to share any datalogging you have

Gear the Castle 3800, 2400 and Tenshock 4600 for the same speed (35 mph on 2s) and they will all make similar power

The Tenshock may run a little cooler

Castle dont reccomend 2s for the 2400

Run it on 3s / 4s and it will also make similar power to the Tenshock 4600

Cheers
crusey_aus is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:30 AM
  #306  
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13
Default

Originally Posted by crusey_aus View Post
Not sure how you come to that conclusion mate

Feel free to share any datalogging you have

Gear the Castle 3800, 2400 and Tenshock 4600 for the same speed (35 mph on 2s) and they will all make similar power

The Tenshock may run a little cooler

Castle dont reccomend 2s for the 2400

Run it on 3s / 4s and it will also make similar power to the Tenshock 4600

Cheers
That's bench racing, not very practical in the real world. He came to that conclusion in the same manner I and many others have; we ran the two motors in the same truck and made a real world observation.

With your logic, a 10.5 540 Ballistic will perform the same as a 6.5 540 Ballistic if geared at similar ratios to obtain similar top speeds supplied with similar voltages. I'm sorry, it just doesn't work that way.
NUC MO is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:33 AM
  #307  
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 13
Default

Originally Posted by shadoflame View Post
what speed control are yall using with these motors?

im planning on using a MMP with either the 4000kv or 4600kv.

are there any issues with using the max pro?

also, how is the 4000kv vs the castle 1410 3800kv ?

I'm using a Tekin RX8 with zero issues. Cogs just a tad with VERY little intial throttle input but unless you're driving around at .5mph; it's a non-issue.
NUC MO is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:41 AM
  #308  
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,465
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Bench racing ?

I am a basher and not a racer if thats what you mean and I test most of these motors with an Eagletree (some graphs are posted in this thread)

I understand the motor may feel differently under race conditions but to claim one makes more power than the other is what I questioned

Lets assume a heavy SC truck needs 800 watts (110 amps) burst to hit 35 mph

Plenty of motors out there will achieve it

The difference between them will be the temperature they run at

If the motor is making more power (drawing more amps) as claimed and the car isnt go any faster then the power is being lost as heat


I will pose it as a question again if that helps

Take the following motors

Castle 3800, 2400, 2650, 2200
Tenshock 4000, 4600, X802

Gear them all for the same speed

What do you think will be the difference between them ?

Cheers
crusey_aus is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:42 AM
  #309  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Ridley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,460
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by crusey_aus View Post
Not sure how you come to that conclusion mate

Feel free to share any datalogging you have

Gear the Castle 3800, 2400 and Tenshock 4600 for the same speed (35 mph on 2s) and they will all make similar power

The Tenshock may run a little cooler

Castle dont reccomend 2s for the 2400

Run it on 3s / 4s and it will also make similar power to the Tenshock 4600

Cheers

Because I have ran both, along with about every other motor combination possible in the 4x4 scte's

The SCTE is limited to a 20t pinion. With a 20/40 gearing on 2s, the 1415 is flat, and rather slow. The tenshock 4600, or 4000, is BY FAR faster, and by FAR has more torque, and is more centrally located in the gearing range compatible with the SCTE. From running both, I can say with 100% certainty that there's really no comparisson between the two....the tenshock is MUCH more powerful.

I'm sure on 3s, the 1415 will wake up, but most are limited to 2s for racing. Anything above 2s, IMHO is irrelevant.

The 3800 is faster on 2s than the 1415, and located about right in the gearing range, but it's still down on torque compared to the Tenshock, likely due to rotor length.

The tenshock actually runs a bit hotter than the castle motors, but is faster than either of them. I also think it's more consistent and smoother. I have had just about every motor available, and the Tenshock 4600 is in my race rig....if there was anything faster available, I assure you it would be in my truck.
Ridley is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:48 AM
  #310  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Ridley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,460
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by crusey_aus View Post
Bench racing ?

I am a basher and not a racer if thats what you mean and I test most of these motors with an Eagletree (some graphs are posted in this thread)

I understand the motor may feel differently under race conditions but to claim one makes more power than the other is what I questioned

Lets assume a heavy SC truck needs 800 watts (110 amps) burst to hit 35 mph

Plenty of motors out there will achieve it

The difference between them will be the temperature they run at

If the motor is making more power (drawing more amps) as claimed and the car isnt go any faster then the power is being lost as heat


I will pose it as a question again if that helps

Take the following motors

Castle 3800, 2400, 2650, 2200
Tenshock 4000, 4600, X802

Gear them all for the same speed

What do you think will be the difference between them ?

Cheers
Sorry mate, it just don't work that way in the real world. The efficiencies of the motors, rotating mass, and final drive efficiencies all play a role.

I know what I post because I HAVE ACTUALLY USED THEM back to back. I'm no noobie racer here, I'm the reigning 4x4 SCT State Champion.....I can tell the difference between a fast motor and a slow motor

Besides...all of your posts became irrelevant when you just posted that the gearing for the Castle 3800 and Tenshock 4600 would be similar. You obviously have no real world experience with the motors, so you likely should stop arguing with those that do.
Ridley is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:50 AM
  #311  
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,465
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

I am not doubting your observations mate

Just not convinced that what you are describing is a difference in power between the motors

You keep suggesting that one is "faster" than the other

Just trying to understand what you mean

I assume you mean faster lap times ?

If the cars were geared for the same speed (for the different kv rating) how would one be faster ?

Cheers
crusey_aus is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:53 AM
  #312  
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,465
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Ridley View Post
Besides...all of your posts became irrelevant when you just posted that the gearing for the Castle 3800 and Tenshock 4600 would be similar. You obviously have no real world experience with the motors, so you likely should stop arguing with those that do.
How do you figure that mate ?

Check the Eagletree graphs posted in this thread that show the 4600 to have a loaded kv value of 4000

Hardly a big difference between that and the Castle value of 3800 ?

Have I missed something ?

No real world experience ?

Not everyone needs to race to have an interest in testing motors

I test the motors in my car (Slash 4x4) with an Eagletree data logger

Surely that data is as good as your "racing feel"

Cheers
crusey_aus is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 12:59 AM
  #313  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Ridley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,460
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by crusey_aus View Post
I am not doubting your observations mate

Just not convinced that what you are describing is a difference in power between the motors

You keep suggesting that one is "faster" than the other

Just trying to understand what you mean

I assume you mean faster lap times ?

If the cars were geared for the same speed (for the different kv rating) how would one be faster ?

Cheers
No, I don't mean faster lap times, I mean it accelerates twice as hard and pulls through the entire KV range. It has more POWer, period, whether you want to us HP, or Watts, either way....the tenshock produces MORE.

So you as a basher can understand....the castle 1415 with the maximum 20/40 gearing will barely brake the tires loose on blacktop. The Tenshock 4600, geared for approximatly the same top speed, will diff the front tires out all the way to 30mph. It's a night and day difference, and if your eagletree can't show you the difference between the two, you might as well pitch it in the trash.
Ridley is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 01:09 AM
  #314  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Ridley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,460
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by crusey_aus View Post
How do you figure that mate ?

Check the Eagletree graphs posted in this thread that show the 4600 to have a loaded kv value of 4000

Hardly a big difference between that and the Castle value of 3800 ?

Have I missed something ?

No real world experience ?

Not everyone needs to race to have an interest in testing motors

I test the motors in my car (Slash 4x4) with an Eagletree data logger

Surely that data is as good as your "racing feel"

Cheers
Well, that makes all your eagletree data null and void then, because there is an obvious and blatent difference in the gearing needed for the 2 motors IN THE REAL WORLD. They are not EVEN CLOSE in real world gearing. The castle value of 3800 is obviously not a loaded KV, or your eagletree is obviously WRONG, or you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

You remind me of someone else on here, getting all involved in nonsense and trying to use equations with false numbers to prove an incorrect conclusion..... Trying to take manufaturers data, compiling that with dubious cheap electronic monitoring equipment, and thinking that will have any bearing on real world performance is just plain asinine.

No, your eagletree data is not as good as my "racing feel" and ACTUAL experience with the motors. I have a suggestion....actually go buy these motors and run them....and then tell me one isn't faster than the other. Until then, you are just talking out your arse.
Ridley is offline  
Old 06-03-2011, 01:17 AM
  #315  
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,465
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Because I am not a racer I am not allowed to have an opinion ?

How am I getting involved with false equations ?

Have you even read any of my posts earlier in this thread ?

I am a basher who trys different motors, I use an Eagletree to post data relevant to the testing I have done

I do own the 4600 and have tested it and posted the data in this thread

Still curious in the difference you have noticed between the 3800 and the 4600

Castle's value of 3800 is loaded

With a loaded kv of 4000 there is only 5% between them

Why would the gearing not be similar ?

Not familiar with your car but for the Slash 4x4

3800 geared 15/54 - 35 mph
4600 geared 15/54 - 37 mph

I am a fan of the Tenshocks and currently have the X802 (2400) in my car

Not sure why you think I am not here to support their motors

Cheers

Last edited by crusey_aus; 06-03-2011 at 01:30 AM.
crusey_aus is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.