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Losi 1/10 TEN-SCTE ARR 4x4 Short Course Truck Thread

Old 03-05-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gawith0413
Hey Casper or Ryan,
I was just wondering, what have you guys had to tweak on your setups when you use a lighter chassis example the TLR, Bump or BCE chassis'? (if you use one) I know this is a pretty general and open question depending on other factors. I was just wanting to hear your guys thoughts and experiences.
Honestly we did not change much. As the trucks are getting lighter with the hopup parts and such we have been going down in shock oil a little. I am at 27.5 from the 30 in the lane setup. We use the torque rod in the rear so we get a little better length wise stiffness but still have good torsion flex in the rear. Other then that you save a few oz off the weight of the truck. Being I have only run the TLR chassis I can't comment on how the other handle.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Casper
Sorry but if both are geared properly the 4600 will out run a 4000 all day long. Now depending on how big your track is and your driving skill the 4000 may produce as good or even better lap times then a 4600 but I don't agree with your statment that the 4600 does not have more power/speed then a 4000. That is like saying my 13.5 will go just as fast as my 7.5
You're comparing a 2pole vs a 4pole not a fair comparison, not to mention the difference from a 13.5 to a 7.5 is more than a 1000kv in most cases between those two difference voltage is the only thing that would make that up on a 2pole sensored motor heat would kill it trying to overgear it (but a boosted 13.5 vs a unboosted 7.5 does what ;P same ballpark). The one thing the 4600 has to it's advantage is it's a Y wind. The two motors are capable of creating basically the same power but since voltage doesn't change you achive this from the increased torque the 4000kv motor has over the 4600kv, 600kv is ~2t so a 4600 with 12t gearing puts just a little less power to the ground than a 4000 14t.. this is assuming a good battery pack capable of the load with the increased demand. That said if all you run is a large track and you'll never want to gear less than 12t then you have no reason to think twice, I run on several size tracks as well as most people I know so it's nice to have options.

Last edited by 8ight-e; 03-05-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:27 PM
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Hey guys just bought a SCTE YEAH BABY....ok back to myself.....lol

I was wondering whats a good run of fluids i should have on stock?

Shock Fulids:

Diff Fluids:

Also whats the best setup for both the SHOCKS Front/Rear

and the DIFFS Front/Center/Rear

Running outdoors on clay!

Thanks
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 8ight-e
You're comparing a 2pole vs a 4pole not a fair comparison, not to mention the difference from a 13.5 to a 7.5 is more than a 1000kv in most cases between those two difference voltage is the only thing that would make that up on a 2pole sensored motor heat would kill it trying to overgear it (but a boosted 13.5 vs a unboosted 7.5 does what ;P same ballpark). The one thing the 4600 has to it's advantage is it's a Y wind. The two motors are capable of creating basically the same power but since voltage doesn't change you achive this from the increased torque the 4000kv motor has over the 4600kv, 600kv is ~2t so a 4600 with 12t gearing puts just a little less power to the ground than a 4000 14t.. this is assuming a good battery pack capable of the load with the increased demand. That said if all you run is a large track and you'll never want to gear less than 12t then you have no reason to think twice, I run on several size tracks as well as most people I know so it's nice to have options.
Boosting the snot out of a 13.5 to get it to 7.5 speeds is possible. The problem I see with that is you really can't boost 4 pole motors like a 2 pole so that argument does not fit too much. I am assuming you have the same ESC settings for both motors. Geared them each for max power output the 4600 will win. Again I will point out more power does not always translate into faster lap times. MOST racers will put in faster lap times and faster overall race times with slower motors. In offroad you tend not to see the really hot motors because we can't use the power and put it down on the track. with the SCTE being 4wd and weighing over 6 lbs it has weight and drive to put power down assuming you have traction. Both get the job done. I will not argue that. 4000 is more then enough for most poeple to get around the track and do it well and for a large crowd they would get more consistant and faster lap times with the 4000 as the 4600 produces a lot of power you need to have decipline to control. The smaller the track the less a difference the 4600 will have over the 4000.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 8ight-e
I'm also still baffled why so many people actually want the 4600kv, it has no more power/speed than a geared up 4000kv but has WAY less gearing options. It Just doesn't make much sense iMO. The 4000kv will give you the ability to gear properly for smaller or larger tracks, and other than normal batch differences they should run at the exact same temp while pushing the same MPH.
At my local track the a friend's 4600 whoops my ass down the straight hands down. If I gear it to keep pace, I overheat. These two motors couldn't feel any different. I kill him on acceleration out of tight corners but he easily passes me half way down the straight. Our trucks are set up identical and weigh the same. The 4600 is softer on the bottom end but is definitely more powerful.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 8ight-e
I'm also still baffled why so many people actually want the 4600kv, it has no more power/speed than a geared up 4000kv but has WAY less gearing options. It Just doesn't make much sense iMO. The 4000kv will give you the ability to gear properly for smaller or larger tracks, and other than normal batch differences they should run at the exact same temp while pushing the same MPH.
BC most people think the higher KV is faster/better without trying to understand the set up
My last post here, out of racing and sold my truck. CYA
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Casper
Boosting the snot out of a 13.5 to get it to 7.5 speeds is possible. The problem I see with that is you really can't boost 4 pole motors like a 2 pole so that argument does not fit too much. I am assuming you have the same ESC settings for both motors. Geared them each for max power output the 4600 will win. Again I will point out more power does not always translate into faster lap times. MOST racers will put in faster lap times and faster overall race times with slower motors. In offroad you tend not to see the really hot motors because we can't use the power and put it down on the track. with the SCTE being 4wd and weighing over 6 lbs it has weight and drive to put power down assuming you have traction. Both get the job done. I will not argue that. 4000 is more then enough for most poeple to get around the track and do it well and for a large crowd they would get more consistant and faster lap times with the 4000 as the 4600 produces a lot of power you need to have decipline to control. The smaller the track the less a difference the 4600 will have over the 4000.
Sorry I wasn't using the boosted vs non talking about 2pole vs 4pole motors. It was just the difference btw a 13.5 and 7.5 on a 2pole. You really cannot compare 2pole vs 4pole like they are apples to apples, and as you said ESC limited w/ the 4pole motors anyway.

The 4pole motors can generate a lot more torque, and the 4000kv generates more effective torque than the 4600. Obviously if you try running that 4k vs the 4.6k w/ the same gearing and voltage the larger kv wins all day for tops speed, but the 4k will consume less mAH and run way cooler motor temps. Push the 4k to the same max output as the 4.6k (via gearing) and it will consume as much lipo and generate the same motor heat output. A side effect, the ESC and Battery may run a little warmer pushing the 4000 at the same top end as a 4600 (amps are increased) if you are gearing for "MAX" possible output. So you can't do this if your lipo isn't strong enough to hold it's voltage with increased demand the 4000 would need (it's not that much difference) But all said, you shouldn't see hardly any difference.

Originally Posted by 05PSD
At my local track the a friend's 4600 whoops my ass down the straight hands down. If I gear it to keep pace, I overheat. These two motors couldn't feel any different. I kill him on acceleration out of tight corners but he easily passes me half way down the straight. Our trucks are set up identical and weigh the same. The 4600 is softer on the bottom end but is definitely more powerful.
There is a 100 reasons why your motor could be hotter, as simple as solder on your lipo's and plugs to differences in bearings to drive train. Even if you have two of the exact same lipo's they could be running different voltages if you have different chargers (not all chargers peak correctly even if they say they do). Different wires (quality or size), plugs etc etc etc all play a role in resistance and heat. You should be able to gear up 2t more than a 4600 w/o any ill effect, again keep in mind tolerances with motors.. pro's I know test and keep the best or are just given the best. Folks like me & you get one retail and make the best of it reguardless of tolerances; sometimes we get lucky sometimes not so much. Don't forget about the impact of 'nitro throttle' vs a nice smooth throttle finger more seasoned electric guys tend to have, if you are constantly pumping an electric like it's a nitro, you will generate additional heat on the entire system.

Last edited by 8ight-e; 03-05-2012 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:27 PM
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I've owned both. Yes they both have about the same power, but the delivery is completely different. The 4000 has too much bottom end torque for my driving style. The 4600 comes on smoother and has more top end speed. (It will keep spinning up after the 4000 tops out). Even with the 4600 I'm using 50% current limiter.



Originally Posted by 8ight-e
I'm also still baffled why so many people actually want the 4600kv, it has no more power/speed than a geared up 4000kv but has WAY less gearing options. It Just doesn't make much sense iMO. The 4000kv will give you the ability to gear properly for smaller or larger tracks, and other than normal batch differences they should run at the exact same temp while pushing the same MPH.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisAttebery
I've owned both. Yes they both have about the same power, but the delivery is completely different. The 4000 has too much bottom end torque for my driving style. The 4600 comes on smoother and has more top end speed. (It will keep spinning up after the 4000 tops out). Even with the 4600 I'm using 50% current limiter.
Good points to consider, as you gear up effective torque does increase and I know exactly what you are talking about with delivery and powerband.. typically I tweak my Tx or ESC to change the curve if needed but for some why bother if you like the feel of, and can make the 4600 work on all the tracks you need it to, godbless That or don't mind having several motor kv choices to swap in/out as needed. Heck I even overgear at times for a track and limit my throttle endpoint (as much as 25% limited) to keep desired top speed but have the delivery I want.
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:00 PM
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Chris has it spot on here guys , too many just back the epa down on your radio and that is the shortcut ( wrong way ) to do it. Try running larger amounts of current limiter and it will reward you.
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dan-o
Chris has it spot on here guys , too many just back the epa down on your radio and that is the shortcut ( wrong way ) to do it. Try running larger amounts of current limiter and it will reward you.
Current Limiter? How are you guys limiting the current? Sounds like something I'd like to try ;-)
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dan-o
Chris has it spot on here guys , too many just back the epa down on your radio and that is the shortcut ( wrong way ) to do it. Try running larger amounts of current limiter and it will reward you.
Just to point out in my case I geared up for responsiveness (additional effective torque) but limited my top end to what I want on the track by controlling the end point. This is nearly opposite of what Chris did w/ the limiter. The limiter smooths out how much effective torque there is, just in case anyone was confused. If you are trying to increase run times, smooth out power bands, reduce slipping the limiter (at least if you have an rx8) will work wonders. Using the limiter may even help with temps depending on variables.
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Old 03-05-2012, 02:52 PM
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Can someone post the part number and size of the screws for the front upper plate that secures the steering rack and attaches to the front bulkhead.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:10 PM
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You can adjust it on the RX8 with the Hotwire PC interface.

Originally Posted by MotoGod
Current Limiter? How are you guys limiting the current? Sounds like something I'd like to try ;-)
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:57 PM
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So the new copperhead combo are doing fine now? Anyone running the newer versions are any issues? Looking at getting one of these now
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