New Tekin Gen 2 Motors - Lighter, Cooler, Faster!
08-09-2015, 04:46 PM
#1051
for an open class
08-09-2015, 05:28 PM
#1053
Track size/surface and skill level play a huge part in that factor.
08-09-2015, 07:09 PM
#1055
08-10-2015, 06:43 AM
#1056
An 8.5/RSX combo is pretty good, that is what I WAS running in my 2wd buggy. You want to know what's even better? A 5.5/RSX combo! As I recall the 5.5 is not ROAR approved, but if your track doesn't enforce ROAR approved motors...
From my experience you can add timing to higher turn motors to attain top speed, but the more timing you add, the tighter the power band, and "more peak-y" the motor feels. Which for me, can make things difficult to drive. However, take a nice low turn motor with no timing and possibly even the end point turned down, and it will have a much smoother power delivery that is easier to manage.
-W
From my experience you can add timing to higher turn motors to attain top speed, but the more timing you add, the tighter the power band, and "more peak-y" the motor feels. Which for me, can make things difficult to drive. However, take a nice low turn motor with no timing and possibly even the end point turned down, and it will have a much smoother power delivery that is easier to manage.
-W
Last edited by Wanderer77; 08-10-2015 at 06:44 AM. Reason: typo
08-10-2015, 10:06 AM
#1058
An 8.5/RSX combo is pretty good, that is what I WAS running in my 2wd buggy. You want to know what's even better? A 5.5/RSX combo!...However, take a nice low turn motor with no timing and possibly even the end point turned down, and it will have a much smoother power delivery that is easier to manage.
-W
-W
The right way to do it is to have the right size motor for your ability and track size. Have you ever seen Cav, Tebo or Maifield run a 5.5 in a 2wd? No you haven't. If an 8.5 isn't enough, go to a 7.5. If the 7.5 is a bit much, use gearing, motor timing, and esc settings to soften the hit.
Just what i've learned over my 25 years of racing.
08-10-2015, 10:56 AM
#1059
I don't have the luxury of owning several motors and choosing one for a given track size/layout.
In my experience it's easier to drive a lower turn motor turned down, than a higher turn motor with a bunch of timing added to try and make up for not having enough kv. So, if I have to buy 1 motor, I buy the lower turn motor and turn EPA up or down as the track allows.
I am really interested the "loss of throttle resolution". Could you please explain?
Thanks.
-W
In my experience it's easier to drive a lower turn motor turned down, than a higher turn motor with a bunch of timing added to try and make up for not having enough kv. So, if I have to buy 1 motor, I buy the lower turn motor and turn EPA up or down as the track allows.
I am really interested the "loss of throttle resolution". Could you please explain?
Thanks.
-W
08-10-2015, 03:19 PM
#1060
Lets say you calibrate the ESC with the throttle EPA at 100, and then set it to 50. Those 50 steps have to cover the same trigger pull amount as the 100 steps. You then would have half the throttle resolution.
It takes a lot of knowledge and work to get a timing ramp setup to have a smooth linear power band. Motor timing, gearing, start rpm, end rpm, the amount of timing the speed control is adding, and all the other settings in the ESC all have to be right. Back before blinky took hold, I had my 17.5 timing ramp car set up perfectly. I let some of the really fast mod guys drive my car, and every single one said the same thing. This is the only timing ramp 17.5 that they had driven that felt right. No lag, no two speed feeling, linear delivery, and great top end. These guys were fast and very particular. In fact one of them was in the A in the mod classes this last weekend at the nationals.
Even still, a 17.5 with all the timing setup perfectly will still not have the out of the hole rip of a mod motor, so I run a 7.5.
Large turn motors with lots of timing can be done right, but you have to be really good at knowing what adjustments to make. I've been doing this for 25+ years, how long have you been racing r/c cars Wanderer?
It takes a lot of knowledge and work to get a timing ramp setup to have a smooth linear power band. Motor timing, gearing, start rpm, end rpm, the amount of timing the speed control is adding, and all the other settings in the ESC all have to be right. Back before blinky took hold, I had my 17.5 timing ramp car set up perfectly. I let some of the really fast mod guys drive my car, and every single one said the same thing. This is the only timing ramp 17.5 that they had driven that felt right. No lag, no two speed feeling, linear delivery, and great top end. These guys were fast and very particular. In fact one of them was in the A in the mod classes this last weekend at the nationals.
Even still, a 17.5 with all the timing setup perfectly will still not have the out of the hole rip of a mod motor, so I run a 7.5.
Large turn motors with lots of timing can be done right, but you have to be really good at knowing what adjustments to make. I've been doing this for 25+ years, how long have you been racing r/c cars Wanderer?
08-10-2015, 03:23 PM
#1061
If you lower your EPA ( End Point Adjustment) away from 100% to say 90% and without recalibration your speedo.... Then you will only get 90% of full throttle and thus never be able to achieve 100%...
Now on the other hand, if you do the same thing and you DO recalibrate your speedo..... you in turn made (in theory) a decreased the amount of throw for you to achieve full throttle. I can see this as a loss in resolution, not the other.
Unless I have been going about this all wrong for decades...
08-10-2015, 03:50 PM
#1062
Lets say you calibrate the ESC with the throttle EPA at 100, and then set it to 50. Those 50 steps have to cover the same trigger pull amount as the 100 steps. You then would have half the throttle resolution.
It takes a lot of knowledge and work to get a timing ramp setup to have a smooth linear power band. Motor timing, gearing, start rpm, end rpm, the amount of timing the speed control is adding, and all the other settings in the ESC all have to be right. Back before blinky took hold, I had my 17.5 timing ramp car set up perfectly. I let some of the really fast mod guys drive my car, and every single one said the same thing. This is the only timing ramp 17.5 that they had driven that felt right. No lag, no two speed feeling, linear delivery, and great top end. These guys were fast and very particular. In fact one of them was in the A in the mod classes this last weekend at the nationals.
Even still, a 17.5 with all the timing setup perfectly will still not have the out of the hole rip of a mod motor, so I run a 7.5.
Large turn motors with lots of timing can be done right, but you have to be really good at knowing what adjustments to make. I've been doing this for 25+ years, how long have you been racing r/c cars Wanderer?
It takes a lot of knowledge and work to get a timing ramp setup to have a smooth linear power band. Motor timing, gearing, start rpm, end rpm, the amount of timing the speed control is adding, and all the other settings in the ESC all have to be right. Back before blinky took hold, I had my 17.5 timing ramp car set up perfectly. I let some of the really fast mod guys drive my car, and every single one said the same thing. This is the only timing ramp 17.5 that they had driven that felt right. No lag, no two speed feeling, linear delivery, and great top end. These guys were fast and very particular. In fact one of them was in the A in the mod classes this last weekend at the nationals.
Even still, a 17.5 with all the timing setup perfectly will still not have the out of the hole rip of a mod motor, so I run a 7.5.
Large turn motors with lots of timing can be done right, but you have to be really good at knowing what adjustments to make. I've been doing this for 25+ years, how long have you been racing r/c cars Wanderer?
Your comments completely re-enforce my thoughts on high turn motors with lots of timing having narrower and/or multi-step power bands and it takes a lot of time to get it set perfectly...therefor you run a 7.5.
I completely understand now your "loss of resolution"...it's like image resolution...If you have 100 percent (pixels) throttle/1 cm travel (width) vs. 50 / 1cm, then your resolution is indeed higher at 100/1 than 50/1.
I didn't have nearly that change on my EPA though. I went from a 8.5 with timing/boost and EPA set at 97-100 to a 5.5 with no timing/boost and EPA set 90-95 based on track conditions. Overall I feel the power delivery is smoother with my new setup. If I had to do it again, I'd buy the 5.5 every day of the week.
-W
08-10-2015, 07:42 PM
#1063
So I read and reread and reread your post and still cant wrap my head around it...
Assuming no timing/ turbo/ boost, straight linear everything....
If you set your EPA at 100% and calibrate the ESC... 100% full throttle and it equals 40 MPH ( just a number to make the math easy)...
Now you set your EPA to 75%. I would think you would only go 30 MPH (75% or 40)...
The way I am reading your post, you are saying that you would still go 40 MPH but it would only take 75% of the trigger throw???
I could see that being true if you recalled your ESC at 75% throttle EPA.
Assuming no timing/ turbo/ boost, straight linear everything....
If you set your EPA at 100% and calibrate the ESC... 100% full throttle and it equals 40 MPH ( just a number to make the math easy)...
Now you set your EPA to 75%. I would think you would only go 30 MPH (75% or 40)...
The way I am reading your post, you are saying that you would still go 40 MPH but it would only take 75% of the trigger throw???
I could see that being true if you recalled your ESC at 75% throttle EPA.
08-10-2015, 07:55 PM
#1064
So I read and reread and reread your post and still cant wrap my head around it...
Assuming no timing/ turbo/ boost, straight linear everything....
If you set your EPA at 100% and calibrate the ESC... 100% full throttle and it equals 40 MPH ( just a number to make the math easy)...
Now you set your EPA to 75%. I would think you would only go 30 MPH (75% or 40)...
The way I am reading your post, you are saying that you would still go 40 MPH but it would only take 75% of the trigger throw???
I could see that being true if you recalled your ESC at 75% throttle EPA.
Assuming no timing/ turbo/ boost, straight linear everything....
If you set your EPA at 100% and calibrate the ESC... 100% full throttle and it equals 40 MPH ( just a number to make the math easy)...
Now you set your EPA to 75%. I would think you would only go 30 MPH (75% or 40)...
The way I am reading your post, you are saying that you would still go 40 MPH but it would only take 75% of the trigger throw???
I could see that being true if you recalled your ESC at 75% throttle EPA.
08-10-2015, 08:35 PM
#1065
OK, so you set your EPA to 100 and calibrate the ESC.
Let's say the car goes 40mph at full throttle.
Now lower EPA to 75.
Now the car goes 30mph, but the trigger physically still travels the same distance to full throttle, but it takes 75 steps to get to full trigger pull, instead of 100. So now the steps have to be larger.
Let's say the car goes 40mph at full throttle.
Now lower EPA to 75.
Now the car goes 30mph, but the trigger physically still travels the same distance to full throttle, but it takes 75 steps to get to full trigger pull, instead of 100. So now the steps have to be larger.